4 ms·

So there was a single specimen ever seen - in 1862. Can we really be confident that this was a separate species and not some mutation of some other species?

cogwheel 3y ago
Right? How long was it until they figured out that one triceratops was a juvenile rather than a separate species? Though if they still have dna from that specimen it should be pretty easy to tell
themerone 3y ago
This was my first thought as an armchair expert. I'm sure the real experts have considered this possibility.
- nycticorax 3y ago
  I'm sure they've considered it, but have they considered it enough? I dunno, the back-and-forth over the extinction status of the ivory-billed woodpecker gave me pause about this sort of thing. It was considered extinct for many years, then was declared not-extinct based on a single video of a single bird flying away from the observer at a fair distance through the trees. (Or at least that was the only 'hard' evidence. There were also testimonials from expert ornithologists that they had seen it, and/or heard its call.) All of this made me think that the standard of evidence for these things is not all that high.
rwmj 3y ago
I was very much hoping to read in the article that they'd managed to extract some DNA and sequence it. I guess if that was still possible then we'd also be able to know how closely related it is to the other stingarees and rays.
pvaldes 3y ago
Not. Could be an hybrid but also a totally original species. We can't be really sure DNA tests would be unreliable. This ray has being swimming in formaldehyde for more than a thousand years; The DNA is damaged beyond recognizable and many morphological aspects could had been seriously damaged also (Specially if improperly fixed). stingrays are specially sensitive to overfishing, but we need to remember that 90% of the ocean is still basically unknown, and the number of marine biologists expert in this family are... like four or so for the whole area?.
andrewflnr 3y ago
It sounds like the species was well known to the locals at the time, for it to be a "delicacy". In that case it would have been a distinct species with noticeable numbers at some point before 1862.
MattGaiser 3y ago
No, a single specimen was catalogued by a scientist. > Coming upon a strange little stingray, a popular delicacy in Indonesia, Martens purchased the dead fish. It was apparently fairly widely eaten and prized as food.

cogwheel 3y ago

Right? How long was it until they figured out that one triceratops was a juvenile rather than a separate species? Though if they still have dna from that specimen it should be pretty easy to tell

themerone 3y ago

This was my first thought as an armchair expert. I'm sure the real experts have considered this possibility.

nycticorax 3y ago
I'm sure they've considered it, but have they considered it enough? I dunno, the back-and-forth over the extinction status of the ivory-billed woodpecker gave me pause about this sort of thing. It was considered extinct for many years, then was declared not-extinct based on a single video of a single bird flying away from the observer at a fair distance through the trees. (Or at least that was the only 'hard' evidence. There were also testimonials from expert ornithologists that they had seen it, and/or heard its call.) All of this made me think that the standard of evidence for these things is not all that high.

rwmj 3y ago

I was very much hoping to read in the article that they'd managed to extract some DNA and sequence it. I guess if that was still possible then we'd also be able to know how closely related it is to the other stingarees and rays.

pvaldes 3y ago

Not. Could be an hybrid but also a totally original species. We can't be really sure DNA tests would be unreliable. This ray has being swimming in formaldehyde for more than a thousand years; The DNA is damaged beyond recognizable and many morphological aspects could had been seriously damaged also (Specially if improperly fixed). stingrays are specially sensitive to overfishing, but we need to remember that 90% of the ocean is still basically unknown, and the number of marine biologists expert in this family are... like four or so for the whole area?.

andrewflnr 3y ago

It sounds like the species was well known to the locals at the time, for it to be a "delicacy". In that case it would have been a distinct species with noticeable numbers at some point before 1862.

MattGaiser 3y ago

No, a single specimen was catalogued by a scientist. > Coming upon a strange little stingray, a popular delicacy in Indonesia, Martens purchased the dead fish. It was apparently fairly widely eaten and prized as food.