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> Israel has the means to kill far more people, if it wanted to - it just doesn't. That you say this and still come on to me with that "I share your values" st

> Israel has the means to kill far more people, if it wanted to - it just doesn't. That you say this and still come on to me with that "I share your values" stuff is just gold.

edanm 3y ago
I don't understand people who say this, I really don't. If I were to say "the US is capable of nuking Iraq and killing most of their civilians", that would just be a true statement of the capabilities of the US. That they chose not to do so during the Iraq war is proof of something about the US's intentions. It's proof of the value that the US places on human lives, despite it sometimes costing the US dearly. Of course I think nuking Iraq would've been unconscionable, for many reasons. For the same reasons that the US chose not to do it, obviously. But pointing that out is just plain old logic. Acting otherwise doesn't add anything to the conversation.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  The US not nuking Iraq in a war of aggression is proof that "the US" places a high value on human life? It would have started WW3 and there would have been no more US. Even the worst sociopath in the world wouldn't have done it just for that reason. It's still a war of aggression, with hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered. > If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk about the day after will be different. https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 That is the intention of those I stand against. https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1742199071761142056 https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1742199071761142056 These are the values of those I criticize. To say "we could have murdered more" and think one can be in any sort related or even adjacent to the tradition of enlightenment and human rights at the same time is preposterous.
l3mure 3y ago
One of Israel's main talking points is an unironic repeat of an abusive trope and they wonder why they're losing the propaganda war, incredible stuff.
dang 3y ago
You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in this thread—e.g. in the parent comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829675, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38824306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38824306. Please don't do that on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. This topic raises a lot of strong feelings in everyone. If your feelings prevent you from commenting within the site guidelines, please wait to comment until that's no longer the case. "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This is important for preserving the community here, and it's important for another reason as well: to the extent that what you're arguing for is true, by posting aggressively and abusively you end up discrediting the truth that you're arguing for. That's not only not in your interest—it hurts everyone. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. We've had to ask you this at least once before, so this problem is not limited to this topic.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  For you it seems to be all about having a nice site. For me it's about having a nice world in which people can enjoy intellectual curiosity without being monstrously guilty for it. > Between 8 December 2023 and 7 February 2024, the entire population in the Gaza Strip (about 2.2 million people) is classified in IPC Phase 3 or above (Crisis or worse). This is the highest share of people facing high levels of acute food insecurity that the IPC initiative has ever classified for any given area or country. This is right now. And this is HN right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38833350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38833350 Given how dedicated large sectors of the US tech industry are to silencing discussion, I can only say, I'll think about it. I might prefer to take my leave from this site than participating in it, to preserve something more valuable, more fundamental, while you explore this local optimum of discussion within a framework of normalizing genocide and sophistry with generous helpings of plausible deniability.

> Israel has the means to kill far more people, if it wanted to - it just doesn't. That you say this and still come on to me with that "I share your values" stuff is just gold.

edanm 3y ago

I don't understand people who say this, I really don't. If I were to say "the US is capable of nuking Iraq and killing most of their civilians", that would just be a true statement of the capabilities of the US. That they chose not to do so during the Iraq war is proof of something about the US's intentions. It's proof of the value that the US places on human lives, despite it sometimes costing the US dearly. Of course I think nuking Iraq would've been unconscionable, for many reasons. For the same reasons that the US chose not to do it, obviously. But pointing that out is just plain old logic. Acting otherwise doesn't add anything to the conversation.

johnnyworker 3y ago
The US not nuking Iraq in a war of aggression is proof that "the US" places a high value on human life? It would have started WW3 and there would have been no more US. Even the worst sociopath in the world wouldn't have done it just for that reason. It's still a war of aggression, with hundreds of thousands of civilians murdered. > If we act strategically correctly, there will be immigration and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza, all the talk about the day after will be different. https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 https://twitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398 That is the intention of those I stand against. https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1742199071761142056 https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1742199071761142056 These are the values of those I criticize. To say "we could have murdered more" and think one can be in any sort related or even adjacent to the tradition of enlightenment and human rights at the same time is preposterous.

l3mure 3y ago

One of Israel's main talking points is an unironic repeat of an abusive trope and they wonder why they're losing the propaganda war, incredible stuff.

dang 3y ago

You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in this thread—e.g. in the parent comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829675, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38824306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38824306. Please don't do that on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. This topic raises a lot of strong feelings in everyone. If your feelings prevent you from commenting within the site guidelines, please wait to comment until that's no longer the case. "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This is important for preserving the community here, and it's important for another reason as well: to the extent that what you're arguing for is true, by posting aggressively and abusively you end up discrediting the truth that you're arguing for. That's not only not in your interest—it hurts everyone. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=truth%20discredit%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. We've had to ask you this at least once before, so this problem is not limited to this topic.

johnnyworker 3y ago
For you it seems to be all about having a nice site. For me it's about having a nice world in which people can enjoy intellectual curiosity without being monstrously guilty for it. > Between 8 December 2023 and 7 February 2024, the entire population in the Gaza Strip (about 2.2 million people) is classified in IPC Phase 3 or above (Crisis or worse). This is the highest share of people facing high levels of acute food insecurity that the IPC initiative has ever classified for any given area or country. This is right now. And this is HN right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38833350 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38833350 Given how dedicated large sectors of the US tech industry are to silencing discussion, I can only say, I'll think about it. I might prefer to take my leave from this site than participating in it, to preserve something more valuable, more fundamental, while you explore this local optimum of discussion within a framework of normalizing genocide and sophistry with generous helpings of plausible deniability.