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>I strongly suspect I'm about to learn I'm wrong about part of the above: No, you are correct. The US is the developed country that is by far the least-depende

by TMWNN 3y ago

>I strongly suspect I'm about to learn I'm wrong about part of the above: No, you are correct. The US is the developed country that is by far the least-dependent on foreign trade. <https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.TRD.GNFS.ZS?locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.TRD.GNFS.ZS?location...> Ignore people like dash2 who say that the US would be "much, much poorer without it"; they're like the Canadians and their American sympathizers who, when the Trump administration in 2017 threatened to impose tariffs, came up with all sorts of clever schemes to stop this by threatening/lobbying Congressmen from the US states most dependent on trade across the 49th parallel. The problem is that the US state most dependent on Canadian trade, Michigan, depends on its as much as the Canadian province that is the next to least dependent on US trade, PEI. <https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8q9h8i/canadaus_trade_as_percentage_of_gdp_for_select/ https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8q9h8i/canadaus_tra...>

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Ignore people like dash2 who say that the US would be "much, much poorer without it" On what planet is losing a quarter of one’s GDP not “much, much poorer”? That’s the GDP of 33 U.S. states and territories [1], through Indiana. It’s more than the GDP of Germany, the world’s third-largest economy [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(no...
- TMWNN 3y ago
  Did you even bother to look at the figures for the rest of the world? During the Great Depression, even if one got a salary cut, that was far better off than losing the job. If the US is "much, much poorer", every other country (developed or not) has been evicted and moving in with the parents if lucky; homeless and on the streets if not.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Did you even bother to look at the figures for the rest of the world? America might be less fucked than everyone else. But it would still get fucked. > During the Great Depression Great analogy. You’re talking about economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression, which involved a 29% reduction in GDP.
    - TMWNN 3y ago
      >America might be less fucked than everyone else. But it would still get fucked. Again, if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? >Great analogy. You’re talking about economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression, which involved a 29% reduction in GDP. The Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than the rest of the world. Europe did not really see the effects until an important bank collapsed in 1931. The crisis hit Germany hard, contributing to Hitler taking power, but it was more the shock of the abrupt end of the 1920s' sharp recovery after the stabilization of the Rentenmark and thus the postwar economy. The UK was hit, but meaningfully milder than the US, and it did not see the "second depression" that the US did in the late 1930s. France was barely affected. Without worldwide trade today, while things won't be great in the US, the rest of the world (including Europe) is a half step from Mad Max.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? You’re both fucked. This is like asking if a massive asteroid hit the other side of the Earth, the people on the other side are not “much, much poorer.” That’s plainly idiotic. > Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than the rest of the world It was also a massive and unprecedented drawdown. People first and foremost measure their lives relative to their recent past. Not how folks halfway around the world are doing. It’s unique because we survived it. Most socieities fail amidst a protracted 25%+ drawdown.

by TMWNN 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Ignore people like dash2 who say that the US would be "much, much poorer without it" On what planet is losing a quarter of one’s GDP not “much, much poorer”? That’s the GDP of 33 U.S. states and territories [1], through Indiana. It’s more than the GDP of Germany, the world’s third-largest economy [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(no...

TMWNN 3y ago
Did you even bother to look at the figures for the rest of the world? During the Great Depression, even if one got a salary cut, that was far better off than losing the job. If the US is "much, much poorer", every other country (developed or not) has been evicted and moving in with the parents if lucky; homeless and on the streets if not.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Did you even bother to look at the figures for the rest of the world? America might be less fucked than everyone else. But it would still get fucked. > During the Great Depression Great analogy. You’re talking about economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression, which involved a 29% reduction in GDP.
  - TMWNN 3y ago
    >America might be less fucked than everyone else. But it would still get fucked. Again, if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? >Great analogy. You’re talking about economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression, which involved a 29% reduction in GDP. The Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than the rest of the world. Europe did not really see the effects until an important bank collapsed in 1931. The crisis hit Germany hard, contributing to Hitler taking power, but it was more the shock of the abrupt end of the 1920s' sharp recovery after the stabilization of the Rentenmark and thus the postwar economy. The UK was hit, but meaningfully milder than the US, and it did not see the "second depression" that the US did in the late 1930s. France was barely affected. Without worldwide trade today, while things won't be great in the US, the rest of the world (including Europe) is a half step from Mad Max.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? You’re both fucked. This is like asking if a massive asteroid hit the other side of the Earth, the people on the other side are not “much, much poorer.” That’s plainly idiotic. > Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than the rest of the world It was also a massive and unprecedented drawdown. People first and foremost measure their lives relative to their recent past. Not how folks halfway around the world are doing. It’s unique because we survived it. Most socieities fail amidst a protracted 25%+ drawdown.