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> what we call “analog” in computing usually turns into digital eventually. uh no. This isn't strictly a rule that's true. It depends on the device whether it'
by corethree 3y ago
> what we call “analog” in computing usually turns into digital eventually.
uh no. This isn't strictly a rule that's true. It depends on the device whether it's an analog device or a digital device. Not all devices are digital. A DC motor is an analog component, a light bulb, a CRT oscilloscope display, an analog meter or gauge, an H-bridge. All these devices can live on the output side of an analog computer, or even a digital one with the right ADCs or DACs. You're wrong here.
>Digital fp8 might be repeatable where analog isn’t, but that doesn’t necessarily make it more accurate, nor is it something we characterize as “exact” like @corethree was claiming.
Why are you replying to my statements in a comment to another person? Makes no sense. Anyway, repeatable and exact are sort of similar concepts. If I can repeat a number that means I can replicate it, exactly. Hence the term exact.
I also never said digital fp8 is more accurate or exact. There's no such thing as "digital fp8" or "analog fp8" it makes no sense. Digital and analog are orthogonal concepts to floating point. I said electrical analog devices cannot precisely represent a ONE. Simply because you cannot remove all the noise from an analog signal to make it a perfect ONE. To help you understand, instead of floating point, think of an INT8. An an analog computer cannot represent the exact instance of an INT8 in the same way a digital one can.
>@corethree said there’s no practical use because analog can be simulated with digital. I’m sure as an audiophile, you’re aware that claim isn’t true.
This is probably the only area where you might be sort of right. Sounds like banging on a drum or the sound of plucking a string have origins from analog components. Even though these sounds can be replicated digitally the creation of unique sounds via analog synthesis is better suited to be done by an actual person banging on the actual thing and making the sound he wants. But I wouldn't call this analog computing.
> It’s true that analog can be simulated with digital but that has no bearing on whether analog components are useful.
Analog components are useful. Analog is what powers everyones home. Analog computing is the thing where analog has virtually no practical usage. Almost 100% of signal processing is now DSP. I'm sure there are really really niche areas where analog is still used, but in general it's not practical. I never said analog components are not useful.
Let me just add to this. Your comment wasn't just about the usefulness of analog computing. It was about a "reinvention" of a digital computer that used a base-10 numeral system and parallel data lines with one line for each digit. You misinterpreted that "invention" as a "analog computer." Your responses are more about you not understanding things then it is about analog computers and their practical usefulness.
>Another one is quantum computers, they’re quite analog, and definitely different from ‘digital’.
No. Quantum computers are not analog. They have qbits, so an aspect of it is discretized into symbols. They aren't digital either.
>One of the analog computing applications I had in mind when I replied was the new Photonic chips. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06558-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06558-8
This is Literally the area where I said analog could be better. Speed and energy. Read the paper that's where the improvements are. They reimplemented a Feed forward neural network (something usually done in digital computers) in an analog photonic chip and the main improvements were: Speed and energy. Literally.
- dahart 3y ago> repeatable and exact are sort of similar concepts Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not. They are orthogonal terms. > No. Quantum computers are not analog. The have qbits Oof, you might want to read up a little. > Analog computing is the thing where analog has virtually no practical usage. [..] in general it’s not practical [..] Literally the area where I said analog could be better. Speed and energy. Wait is analog compute practical and useful or not? Make up your mind, you’re contradicting yourself, speed and energy is useful and practical. Those are the primary advantages for all computing hardware developments. Anabrid, the company than makes THAT, is building analog compute chips. Lots of companies are building analog compute chips for AI and signal processing, because there are practical uses. Just google “analog chip startup” and see how many companies you can find releasing new analog chips in the last 2 years alone.
- corethree 3y ago>Oh my, no. Exact number is a term that makes a statement about precision and error, and repeatable is not. They are orthogonal terms. Oh my yes. The action of "repeating" 100 percent requires the ability to create an exact number. Why don't you try it repeating a 1v value in a circuit where exact numbers can't be made. Your claim simply isn't in line with reality. >Wait is analog compute practical and useful or not? Make up your mind I "made up my mind" in literally the first statement in this thread. I'll quote it: "No there are no practical uses other than speed and energy efficiency" Every response your making is essentially a response to this very first sentence that spawned this entire thread. What's going on here is you "forgot" the point. You're trying to come up with counter examples on how analog computing is useful and all your examples involve speed and energy because you forgot that I caveated my first sentence with speed and energy efficiency. Hopefully you remember now. Additionally as I said earlier you're also mistaken on what digital and analog computing is. I won't repeat myself. Just reread what I wrote earlier. >Those are the primary advantages for all computing hardware developments. No it's not. Memory, robustness, versatility and more all avenues of optimization trade offs that can be made. Analog chips can only be faster and energy efficient. Versatility is where they lose as they have almost none. >"analog chip startup” and see how many companies you can find releasing new analog chips in the last 2 years alone. I use analog chips for my job man. Accelerometers and other mems sensors are things I deal with on the daily. They are everywhere. We are talking about analog computing. For computing neural networks is really the only thing where it can sort of work and it's only done for as I stated before speed and efficiency. A regular GPU is plenty fast in doing most applications right now anyway.