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> From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that ma

> From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that many 'choices' are not really up to the individual to decide. ... I think you are taking the influences we all have - emotional, physical, environmental, etc. - to an extreme. It's not blank slate or automaton. People still make lots of choices, even if there are drives and other influences one way or the other. You don't have to do bad things, and you can choose to deal with your natural drives, emotions, etc. in many ways.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
Okay, so then it should be easy to find and list out 'overwhelming evidence'? The Dutch example suggests the opposite, that to noticeably move the needle for large groups of people like that, in a positive direction, would take many lifetimes to occur. Even to get them back to the population average would likely take at least a half dozen generations.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Ah, I didn't realize this is some racial/ethnic superiority rationalization. IMHO such arguments are transparently an attempt to rationalize people's biases (and in the current rhetoric, they like to assert them as if they they have novel, insightful, intellectual ideas, instead of just espousing old reactionary oppression). Life is too short for such diversions, and those things have cause far, far to much harm to too many people, in ways we know very well. In fact, I might assert that nothing has caused more harm to humanity: stop acting on racial/ethnic/nationalistic biases, and we'd have a far more peaceful, free, prosperous world. Lots of people have that bias, everyone to some degree. Everyone has anger too, but we don't all punch or neighbors or believe we are self-righteous. You could change how you deal with your biases right now - you don't need generations, and don't accept that excuse for yourself. We have a choice; we can do so much more - right now.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Did you fully read the prior comments? Or is there confusion about the term 'Dutch'? This is another term to refer to the Netherlands. Considering this is the third deflection in a row, I'm going to have to insist on solid proof of this 'overwhelming evidence' going forwards, instead of hand-waving and easily seen through innuendos.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

Okay, so then it should be easy to find and list out 'overwhelming evidence'? The Dutch example suggests the opposite, that to noticeably move the needle for large groups of people like that, in a positive direction, would take many lifetimes to occur. Even to get them back to the population average would likely take at least a half dozen generations.

wolverine876 3y ago
Ah, I didn't realize this is some racial/ethnic superiority rationalization. IMHO such arguments are transparently an attempt to rationalize people's biases (and in the current rhetoric, they like to assert them as if they they have novel, insightful, intellectual ideas, instead of just espousing old reactionary oppression). Life is too short for such diversions, and those things have cause far, far to much harm to too many people, in ways we know very well. In fact, I might assert that nothing has caused more harm to humanity: stop acting on racial/ethnic/nationalistic biases, and we'd have a far more peaceful, free, prosperous world. Lots of people have that bias, everyone to some degree. Everyone has anger too, but we don't all punch or neighbors or believe we are self-righteous. You could change how you deal with your biases right now - you don't need generations, and don't accept that excuse for yourself. We have a choice; we can do so much more - right now.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Did you fully read the prior comments? Or is there confusion about the term 'Dutch'? This is another term to refer to the Netherlands. Considering this is the third deflection in a row, I'm going to have to insist on solid proof of this 'overwhelming evidence' going forwards, instead of hand-waving and easily seen through innuendos.