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Based on overwhelming evidence. Based on people I know and interact with all the time; based on thousands of years of history, philosophy, stories, religion tha

Based on overwhelming evidence. Based on people I know and interact with all the time; based on thousands of years of history, philosophy, stories, religion that embody it and talk about it. Based on our reality: We were born into a world built by it, free and prosperous and safe far beyond any of our ancestors. Generations before us actually built that (and what are we building for the next?). Look what King and Einstein and Keynes (and Friedman) and Steinum and all those people built - none profiting much from it. Do you really doubt that humans have better angels and worse - inside every one of us, and that we have a choice? It's hardly a novel idea, though I can see that it's outre, it's disruptive and outside the pale, in this (uber-reactionary?) moment. Otherwise, who would want to deny that reality?

MichaelZuo 3y ago
Can you list a few reasoned out examples of this 'overwhelming evidence'? From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that many 'choices' are not really up to the individual to decide. And certainly by adulthood, which is the vast majority of passing HN readers, many many permanent life altering choices have occurred. For a real world example, the children and grandchildren of those who suffered severe starvation in the Netherlands during WW2 have noticeably worse characteristics on average, in terms of a shorter lifespan, less healthy, etc.., compared to families that didn't undergo that. Even their personalities and behaviours, on average, were affected.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that many 'choices' are not really up to the individual to decide. ... I think you are taking the influences we all have - emotional, physical, environmental, etc. - to an extreme. It's not blank slate or automaton. People still make lots of choices, even if there are drives and other influences one way or the other. You don't have to do bad things, and you can choose to deal with your natural drives, emotions, etc. in many ways.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Okay, so then it should be easy to find and list out 'overwhelming evidence'? The Dutch example suggests the opposite, that to noticeably move the needle for large groups of people like that, in a positive direction, would take many lifetimes to occur. Even to get them back to the population average would likely take at least a half dozen generations.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Ah, I didn't realize this is some racial/ethnic superiority rationalization. IMHO such arguments are transparently an attempt to rationalize people's biases (and in the current rhetoric, they like to assert them as if they they have novel, insightful, intellectual ideas, instead of just espousing old reactionary oppression). Life is too short for such diversions, and those things have cause far, far to much harm to too many people, in ways we know very well. In fact, I might assert that nothing has caused more harm to humanity: stop acting on racial/ethnic/nationalistic biases, and we'd have a far more peaceful, free, prosperous world. Lots of people have that bias, everyone to some degree. Everyone has anger too, but we don't all punch or neighbors or believe we are self-righteous. You could change how you deal with your biases right now - you don't need generations, and don't accept that excuse for yourself. We have a choice; we can do so much more - right now.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Did you fully read the prior comments? Or is there confusion about the term 'Dutch'? This is another term to refer to the Netherlands. Considering this is the third deflection in a row, I'm going to have to insist on solid proof of this 'overwhelming evidence' going forwards, instead of hand-waving and easily seen through innuendos.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

Can you list a few reasoned out examples of this 'overwhelming evidence'? From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that many 'choices' are not really up to the individual to decide. And certainly by adulthood, which is the vast majority of passing HN readers, many many permanent life altering choices have occurred. For a real world example, the children and grandchildren of those who suffered severe starvation in the Netherlands during WW2 have noticeably worse characteristics on average, in terms of a shorter lifespan, less healthy, etc.., compared to families that didn't undergo that. Even their personalities and behaviours, on average, were affected.

wolverine876 3y ago
> From what I understand of modern biology even newborn babies are not entirely blank slates, there's some amount of genetic and epigenetic influence so that many 'choices' are not really up to the individual to decide. ... I think you are taking the influences we all have - emotional, physical, environmental, etc. - to an extreme. It's not blank slate or automaton. People still make lots of choices, even if there are drives and other influences one way or the other. You don't have to do bad things, and you can choose to deal with your natural drives, emotions, etc. in many ways.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Okay, so then it should be easy to find and list out 'overwhelming evidence'? The Dutch example suggests the opposite, that to noticeably move the needle for large groups of people like that, in a positive direction, would take many lifetimes to occur. Even to get them back to the population average would likely take at least a half dozen generations.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Ah, I didn't realize this is some racial/ethnic superiority rationalization. IMHO such arguments are transparently an attempt to rationalize people's biases (and in the current rhetoric, they like to assert them as if they they have novel, insightful, intellectual ideas, instead of just espousing old reactionary oppression). Life is too short for such diversions, and those things have cause far, far to much harm to too many people, in ways we know very well. In fact, I might assert that nothing has caused more harm to humanity: stop acting on racial/ethnic/nationalistic biases, and we'd have a far more peaceful, free, prosperous world. Lots of people have that bias, everyone to some degree. Everyone has anger too, but we don't all punch or neighbors or believe we are self-righteous. You could change how you deal with your biases right now - you don't need generations, and don't accept that excuse for yourself. We have a choice; we can do so much more - right now.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Did you fully read the prior comments? Or is there confusion about the term 'Dutch'? This is another term to refer to the Netherlands. Considering this is the third deflection in a row, I'm going to have to insist on solid proof of this 'overwhelming evidence' going forwards, instead of hand-waving and easily seen through innuendos.