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I'll bite. When I draw someone, I don't give much thought to skin color or nationality. Someone is intentionally choosing a stereotype to signal a particular

I'll bite. When I draw someone, I don't give much thought to skin color or nationality. Someone is intentionally choosing a stereotype to signal a particular culture, region, or race. If you asked me to draw a Chinese man, he could be in a suit or traditional or a pair of jeans and t shirt. Which do I pick? I suppose whatever the scene or situation has called for. Now, what about a generic "learn Spanish" sentence? What does a Chinese man in traditional wear have to do with the Spanish word for cheese? Would I find a Chinese man in traditional Chinese clothes speaking Spanish in Mexico? No. Probably not. What I find is that depictions of stereotypes out of context are an unnecessary distraction pushing a perspective unrelated to the task at hand. And yes, while it may be minor in contrast to every true and serious topic, if someone introduces themselves at a party as Dr. So and So, I'm curious as to why a title was brought into a peer-to-peer conversation. At best it is a distraction that worst an unnecessary signaling of self. Sincerely, Sir Pizza Esq., C.E.O. the Third

kelseyfrog 3y ago
But you're not going, "this representation doesn't conform to my expectations so it shouldn't exist." It sounds like you're not taking it that far. Am I wrong? I feel like I understand the situations that make you feel this way, but I'm still left wondering, why? Can you walk me through your emotional reasoning? Which cognitive mechanisms contribute toward the feeling?
- pizzafeelsright 3y ago
  Sure. Corporate or HR or someone is pushing for a perspective that is not natural. Real example: I created documentation for a specific team, showed it to my supervisor, who approved with one requested change: that I embed alternate text for every image. I knew the target team had no sight impaired people so I asked why. Her explanation was that perhaps someone who was sight impaired might at some point want to review the documentation. Because of a hypothetical future reality, I was instructed to make changes that were not apart of the original requirement, to benefit someone who to all of our known realities does not yet exist. I was not asked to translate the document into the 30 languages our company employees speak - this is a true reality. Now we can argue that text can be converted into languages using existing technology and at the time image to text translation does not capture the intent of the flow charts and screenshots that I had created so a human would have to generate these alternate text blobs. This one person had a perspective that while admirable was not exactly grounded in reality or practicality but was manifested from their own desires, bias, or influence. Now, my text was not screened for vocabulary levels that match the intended audience so it is possible that I was either being condescending or esoteric but that was not addressed because the concern was brought up. I do believe we each have a desire to shape to shape our world into our vision - and that bias should be met grace, humility, and thoughtful expression when spoken by someone in authority or with power. My frustration is when an unrelated preference or opinion shapes the way a goal is met instead of the completion of the task.
  - kelseyfrog 3y ago
    What I'm picking up is that being asked to do work that doesn't have a real benefit and being kinda lied to about it is the issue. Ya? Help me tie it back to being a viewer or consumer of media. I'm not finding a clear path back to the original topic of seeing representation and feeling a certain way
    - woooooo 3y ago
      It's about trends substituting for actual empathy. Accessibility for sight impaired is hot in tech the last couple years, so parent poster had to work it in to be "inclusive" despite knowing for a fact that zero blind people use the software. This gets extra spicy when you start comparing "ethnic groups we are supposed to care about a lot" with the actual, very diverse actually, ethnic fingerprint in tech.
8organicbits 3y ago
> Would I find a Chinese man in traditional Chinese clothes speaking Spanish in Mexico? No. Probably not. You'll certainly find Chinese men in China learning Spanish using Duolingo ahead of a trip to Mexico. Should they only look at traditional depictions of Spanish speaking people while they learn? Or should they, the user of the app, occasionally see someone who they may personally associate with, speaking the language they are currently trying to learn. The learner could literally be a Chinese man wanting to speak Spanish in Mexico. People of all skin colors and backgrounds regularly learn new languages, and the characters attempt to reflect that. That's the theory. I'm not sure I get the anger expressed up-thread.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

But you're not going, "this representation doesn't conform to my expectations so it shouldn't exist." It sounds like you're not taking it that far. Am I wrong? I feel like I understand the situations that make you feel this way, but I'm still left wondering, why? Can you walk me through your emotional reasoning? Which cognitive mechanisms contribute toward the feeling?

pizzafeelsright 3y ago
Sure. Corporate or HR or someone is pushing for a perspective that is not natural. Real example: I created documentation for a specific team, showed it to my supervisor, who approved with one requested change: that I embed alternate text for every image. I knew the target team had no sight impaired people so I asked why. Her explanation was that perhaps someone who was sight impaired might at some point want to review the documentation. Because of a hypothetical future reality, I was instructed to make changes that were not apart of the original requirement, to benefit someone who to all of our known realities does not yet exist. I was not asked to translate the document into the 30 languages our company employees speak - this is a true reality. Now we can argue that text can be converted into languages using existing technology and at the time image to text translation does not capture the intent of the flow charts and screenshots that I had created so a human would have to generate these alternate text blobs. This one person had a perspective that while admirable was not exactly grounded in reality or practicality but was manifested from their own desires, bias, or influence. Now, my text was not screened for vocabulary levels that match the intended audience so it is possible that I was either being condescending or esoteric but that was not addressed because the concern was brought up. I do believe we each have a desire to shape to shape our world into our vision - and that bias should be met grace, humility, and thoughtful expression when spoken by someone in authority or with power. My frustration is when an unrelated preference or opinion shapes the way a goal is met instead of the completion of the task.
- kelseyfrog 3y ago
  What I'm picking up is that being asked to do work that doesn't have a real benefit and being kinda lied to about it is the issue. Ya? Help me tie it back to being a viewer or consumer of media. I'm not finding a clear path back to the original topic of seeing representation and feeling a certain way
  - woooooo 3y ago
    It's about trends substituting for actual empathy. Accessibility for sight impaired is hot in tech the last couple years, so parent poster had to work it in to be "inclusive" despite knowing for a fact that zero blind people use the software. This gets extra spicy when you start comparing "ethnic groups we are supposed to care about a lot" with the actual, very diverse actually, ethnic fingerprint in tech.

8organicbits 3y ago

> Would I find a Chinese man in traditional Chinese clothes speaking Spanish in Mexico? No. Probably not. You'll certainly find Chinese men in China learning Spanish using Duolingo ahead of a trip to Mexico. Should they only look at traditional depictions of Spanish speaking people while they learn? Or should they, the user of the app, occasionally see someone who they may personally associate with, speaking the language they are currently trying to learn. The learner could literally be a Chinese man wanting to speak Spanish in Mexico. People of all skin colors and backgrounds regularly learn new languages, and the characters attempt to reflect that. That's the theory. I'm not sure I get the anger expressed up-thread.