2 ms·

Leaving the CU was inevitable in leaving the EU, since the core of the ToR is a CU. We could have left the EU and (in theory) re-joined EFTA, then kept the EEA

Leaving the CU was inevitable in leaving the EU, since the core of the ToR is a CU. We could have left the EU and (in theory) re-joined EFTA, then kept the EEA agreement operational. That would have left us with SM membership, and aligning customs tariffs would have removed any point in agreeing to a new CU. It still would have left VAT deals, etc to be agreed. However that is all water under the bridge.

skissane 3y ago
> Leaving the CU was inevitable in leaving the EU You don't need to be a member of the EU to be a member of the EU customs union. Monaco is not an EU member state, yet it is a member of the EU customs union. In fact, post-Brexit, the UK remains a member of the EU customs union, but only with respect to Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British exclaves in Cyprus). (Additionally, the UK is negotiating with the EU and Spain for Gibraltar to join the Schengen area, and it is possible Gibraltar may also join the EU customs union as part of that.) The EU also has (narrower) customs unions with Andorra, San Marino and Turkey. The UK could have remained in a customs union with the EU at Brexit, if that had been negotiated as part of the Withdrawal Agreement. The EU might have been willing, but the UK made clear they weren't interested. The justification given by the UK, is that staying in (or rejoining) the EU customs union would reduce the UK's ability to make independent trade deals. However, the promised benefits of that ability have thus far failed to eventuate.
- dfawcus 3y ago
  > You don't need to be a member of the EU to be a member of the EU customs union. Yes you do. Read the ToR. > Monaco is not an EU member state, yet it is a member of the EU customs union. That is _a_ customs union with the EU, not _the_ EU customs union. c.f. that with Turkey. As to being in a customs union with the EU, it would have been pointless given the existence of the SM. Negotiating to be in the SM would have been much more useful. The SM was created because the CU had been stretched as much as it could, and could not really add any more value. The major changes, and improvements in movements of goods came post '94, once the SM was operational. Being in the SM, together with (unilateral) customs duties alignment would have been sufficient, and rendered moot any additional gain from being in a CU. Having an additional standalone VAT agreement would have removed any remaining barriers. However, that is all rather moot now.
  - skissane 3y ago
    > Yes you do. Read the ToR. By “ToR” you mean the original “Treaty of Rome”? Or the current TFEU? Which article are you referring to? > That is _a_ customs union with the EU, not _the_ EU customs union. c.f. that with Turkey. No, it is different. Monaco is part of the EU customs territory, Turkey is not. See article 4 of the Union Customs Code [0] - you will see that Monaco is part of its definition and so is the UK’s territories in Cyprus. Andorra, Turkey, etc, are not listed in article 4 and hence are outside the EU customs territory [0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0952-20221212 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

skissane 3y ago

> Leaving the CU was inevitable in leaving the EU You don't need to be a member of the EU to be a member of the EU customs union. Monaco is not an EU member state, yet it is a member of the EU customs union. In fact, post-Brexit, the UK remains a member of the EU customs union, but only with respect to Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British exclaves in Cyprus). (Additionally, the UK is negotiating with the EU and Spain for Gibraltar to join the Schengen area, and it is possible Gibraltar may also join the EU customs union as part of that.) The EU also has (narrower) customs unions with Andorra, San Marino and Turkey. The UK could have remained in a customs union with the EU at Brexit, if that had been negotiated as part of the Withdrawal Agreement. The EU might have been willing, but the UK made clear they weren't interested. The justification given by the UK, is that staying in (or rejoining) the EU customs union would reduce the UK's ability to make independent trade deals. However, the promised benefits of that ability have thus far failed to eventuate.

dfawcus 3y ago
> You don't need to be a member of the EU to be a member of the EU customs union. Yes you do. Read the ToR. > Monaco is not an EU member state, yet it is a member of the EU customs union. That is _a_ customs union with the EU, not _the_ EU customs union. c.f. that with Turkey. As to being in a customs union with the EU, it would have been pointless given the existence of the SM. Negotiating to be in the SM would have been much more useful. The SM was created because the CU had been stretched as much as it could, and could not really add any more value. The major changes, and improvements in movements of goods came post '94, once the SM was operational. Being in the SM, together with (unilateral) customs duties alignment would have been sufficient, and rendered moot any additional gain from being in a CU. Having an additional standalone VAT agreement would have removed any remaining barriers. However, that is all rather moot now.
- skissane 3y ago
  > Yes you do. Read the ToR. By “ToR” you mean the original “Treaty of Rome”? Or the current TFEU? Which article are you referring to? > That is _a_ customs union with the EU, not _the_ EU customs union. c.f. that with Turkey. No, it is different. Monaco is part of the EU customs territory, Turkey is not. See article 4 of the Union Customs Code [0] - you will see that Monaco is part of its definition and so is the UK’s territories in Cyprus. Andorra, Turkey, etc, are not listed in article 4 and hence are outside the EU customs territory [0] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0952-20221212 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...