4 ms·

Suicide should NOT be as stigmatized as it currently is in modern society. Everyone was brought into this world without their permission, they should be able t

Suicide should NOT be as stigmatized as it currently is in modern society. Everyone was brought into this world without their permission, they should be able to leave it in a safe and reliable way too.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rglullis 3y ago
The idea of "brought into the world" somehow establishes that we were somewhere before. What would that be?
- keiferski 3y ago
  This is the interesting thing about many so-called “modern” positions: they are built on premodern foundations. Eternal souls are obviously nonsense, according to this view, however, they act as if everyone is randomly placed into a body before birth. From where? Unclear, but identity still seems to persist there.
- hypeatei 3y ago
  That is a philosophical question that doesn't have a clear answer. Personally, I don't remember anything before the time I was born, it was nothingness.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    Do you remember anything hours after you were born? Days? Months? Was it nothingness then?
- shikshake 3y ago
  IKEA
- diggan 3y ago
  > The idea of "brought into the world" somehow establishes that we were somewhere before. What would that be? Or you were nowhere/nothing, then you became something/somewhere, that action could be referred to as "brought into the world".
triyambakam 3y ago
That's one view. The Hindu view is that we all chose to be born and most suicide has very negative consequences. The one exception is Prayopavesa.
- knome 3y ago
  I would expect that if one has chosen to be here, it would be reasonable to allow them to decide whether the consequences for leaving are justified
KronisLV 3y ago
> Suicide should NOT be as stigmatized as it currently is in modern society. I think that the problem here is the fact that in some cases what might drive someone to taking their life might be preventable: either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them, or a mix of all of those. Or to call out harmful behavior when it occurs on the part of others, because humans can be really horrible to one another. That said, I guess I agree with your take, even if it sounds very antinatalist. Maybe with the caveat that we should decisively figure out whether anything happens after death (our best guess is that nothing, though we might eventually even stimulate a near-death experience in an otherwise healthy brain to explain away any hallucinations) and in the end let people decide: either keep existing in our imperfect world, with all of the good and bad about it, or choose... eternal nothingness, until the heat death of the universe.
- keymasta 3y ago
  > either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them, or a mix of all of those I feel like you forgot the primary thing that would help people to stop thinking of ending it: being able to afford necessities.
  - KronisLV 3y ago
    It breaks my heart that this is the case. Honestly, even online you hear so much about people struggling with everything from affording food, to hoping that they'll ever be able to pay off their debts or even afford a place to live. :(
- hypeatei 3y ago
  > ...either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them I think a problem with this is that suicide is so "off limits" that talking about doing it can get you institutionalized. Some medication can have awful side effects (mainly talking about SSRIs) which some people may not wish to experiment with. Overall, I agree that other options should be presented too. But the root of the issue is the stigmatization of it all.
dgrin91 3y ago
> Everyone was brought into this world without their permission I can never tell if this is satire or not. What does this even mean? Is this a bad thing? Is there some utopian goal where we somehow build some gizmo that can communicate with your consciousness pre-conception and get informed consent to 'being you into this world'?
- hypeatei 3y ago
  It's not satire. > Is this a bad thing? Is there some utopian goal... Depends on the person. I'm not personally looking for a consent system before being born, merely pointing out the fact you can be born and have no control over anything. Things like illness, defects, abusive parents, etc... so people should have a safe option to leave life too.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rglullis 3y ago

The idea of "brought into the world" somehow establishes that we were somewhere before. What would that be?

keiferski 3y ago
This is the interesting thing about many so-called “modern” positions: they are built on premodern foundations. Eternal souls are obviously nonsense, according to this view, however, they act as if everyone is randomly placed into a body before birth. From where? Unclear, but identity still seems to persist there.
hypeatei 3y ago
That is a philosophical question that doesn't have a clear answer. Personally, I don't remember anything before the time I was born, it was nothingness.
- rglullis 3y ago
  Do you remember anything hours after you were born? Days? Months? Was it nothingness then?
shikshake 3y ago
IKEA
diggan 3y ago
> The idea of "brought into the world" somehow establishes that we were somewhere before. What would that be? Or you were nowhere/nothing, then you became something/somewhere, that action could be referred to as "brought into the world".

triyambakam 3y ago

That's one view. The Hindu view is that we all chose to be born and most suicide has very negative consequences. The one exception is Prayopavesa.

knome 3y ago
I would expect that if one has chosen to be here, it would be reasonable to allow them to decide whether the consequences for leaving are justified

KronisLV 3y ago

> Suicide should NOT be as stigmatized as it currently is in modern society. I think that the problem here is the fact that in some cases what might drive someone to taking their life might be preventable: either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them, or a mix of all of those. Or to call out harmful behavior when it occurs on the part of others, because humans can be really horrible to one another. That said, I guess I agree with your take, even if it sounds very antinatalist. Maybe with the caveat that we should decisively figure out whether anything happens after death (our best guess is that nothing, though we might eventually even stimulate a near-death experience in an otherwise healthy brain to explain away any hallucinations) and in the end let people decide: either keep existing in our imperfect world, with all of the good and bad about it, or choose... eternal nothingness, until the heat death of the universe.

keymasta 3y ago
> either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them, or a mix of all of those I feel like you forgot the primary thing that would help people to stop thinking of ending it: being able to afford necessities.
- KronisLV 3y ago
  It breaks my heart that this is the case. Honestly, even online you hear so much about people struggling with everything from affording food, to hoping that they'll ever be able to pay off their debts or even afford a place to live. :(
hypeatei 3y ago
> ...either with therapy, medication, supportive people around them I think a problem with this is that suicide is so "off limits" that talking about doing it can get you institutionalized. Some medication can have awful side effects (mainly talking about SSRIs) which some people may not wish to experiment with. Overall, I agree that other options should be presented too. But the root of the issue is the stigmatization of it all.

dgrin91 3y ago

> Everyone was brought into this world without their permission I can never tell if this is satire or not. What does this even mean? Is this a bad thing? Is there some utopian goal where we somehow build some gizmo that can communicate with your consciousness pre-conception and get informed consent to 'being you into this world'?

hypeatei 3y ago
It's not satire. > Is this a bad thing? Is there some utopian goal... Depends on the person. I'm not personally looking for a consent system before being born, merely pointing out the fact you can be born and have no control over anything. Things like illness, defects, abusive parents, etc... so people should have a safe option to leave life too.