4 ms·

Heh, I am a EU immigrant to the UK, been with my wife 30 years, and both my in-laws were rabbid brexiters of course.... Until I told them they were voting for

Heh, I am a EU immigrant to the UK, been with my wife 30 years, and both my in-laws were rabbid brexiters of course.... Until I told them they were voting for literally preventing their daughter and me the life we've been living. Their grandkids, everything wouldn't have been possible without her being allowed to work there, and me being able to work here... They hadn't realized that of course, because you know, as far as immigration goes, they were just fine with the lovely polish lady at the shop, and me of course, what they didn't want is 'them' (not entirely clear who that is).

mike_hearn 3y ago
Brexit doesn't prevent people from Europe immigrating to the UK, and was never pitched as doing that, so you might not have been representing it correctly to your in-laws unless you had no skills and were not in education when you immigrated.
- cassianoleal 3y ago
  Brexit makes it a lot harder for EU nationals to go to the UK. Sure it doesn't prevent it altogether, but it creates many barriers and increases cost and uncertainty. I went to the UK long before Brexit and currently hold settled status but had all that not been the case I'd probably be in Spain, or the Netherlands, or perhaps Germany. Going to the UK would simply not be worth the hassle when I have so many other much more accessible options, and in places where I wouldn't feel like I'm being done a favour for being allowed to live there, work there, pay my taxes and do my shopping there, helping British organisations modernise themselves and become more competitive, helping grow the GDP...
  - mike_hearn 3y ago
    > Brexit makes it a lot harder for EU nationals to go to the UK. Harder yes, but buserror said it was voting for "literally preventing their daughter and me the life we've been living". That statement is "literally" not true, unless buserror could not have met those requirements at any point in the past decades. Having requirements is not the same thing as absolute prevention.
    - cassianoleal 3y ago
      Maybe they just meant they would have literally made a distinct choice due to the conditions set by Brexit, in which case Brexit would literally prevent that outcome. Maybe not legally, but literality includes the practical aspects of life as well.
ithkuil 3y ago
My father in law, a very right wing italian. Me, a foreigner living in Italy for quite some time now. The way he managed to justify the hatred towards a generic "them" while accepting people like me is a simple trick (I don't know if he came to this conclusion all by himself or with the help of the right wing intellectual class that concoct new tricks every day in the newspapers he reads): He says that these dirty immigrants should go away because there are many criminals. Sure, he says, there are fine people like you, but they are an exception. I object that there are plenty of Italian criminals, and I even try to find data to debunk his claims that more than half of Italian jails are filled up with immigrants (he claims he got those facts from the aforementioned newspapers). But then he just drops his "get out of jail card" and says "ok, sure, we also have plenty of criminals, thieves, rapists, etc; but they are OUR criminals, OUR thieves, OUR rapists; we have to keep them, they are OUR people; I don't want those OTHER people coming here and doing those bad things, we already have our own to deal with". It's all about the absolute certainty that most of the immigrants are here with the explicit intent of doing harm. Normal laws shouldn't apply to them, he says. If you're an immigrant and it looks like you may have done something bad, immediate deportation; the current laws are too lax, he says. they are good for italians, of course, because God forbid his daughter gets arrested just because she superficially looks like somebody who committed a crime, but it's ok for THEM to be treated like that ... ... Because .... because he doesn't know them. He never met THEM. Every time he met an immigrant that immigrant became a PERSON and once that became a person it no longer became one of THEM. That's why he's perfectly fine with the Albanian housekeeper, the Croatian son in law, the Turkish mechanic, .... They all are fine people who are not the dirty criminals the newspapers he reads keep talking about
- tim333 3y ago
  You can make an argument for screening immigrants for being decent people before letting them in. Most anti immigrant right wingers are ok with doctors etc but want to exclude criminal types.
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    Most countries, if not all, already have very complex screening procedures for possible immigrants, and also even for temporary visas. Typically, an official criminal record is a mandatory part of the application. So all inefficient criminals, who have been caught at least once, will be excluded from the immigrants :-)

mike_hearn 3y ago

Brexit doesn't prevent people from Europe immigrating to the UK, and was never pitched as doing that, so you might not have been representing it correctly to your in-laws unless you had no skills and were not in education when you immigrated.

cassianoleal 3y ago
Brexit makes it a lot harder for EU nationals to go to the UK. Sure it doesn't prevent it altogether, but it creates many barriers and increases cost and uncertainty. I went to the UK long before Brexit and currently hold settled status but had all that not been the case I'd probably be in Spain, or the Netherlands, or perhaps Germany. Going to the UK would simply not be worth the hassle when I have so many other much more accessible options, and in places where I wouldn't feel like I'm being done a favour for being allowed to live there, work there, pay my taxes and do my shopping there, helping British organisations modernise themselves and become more competitive, helping grow the GDP...
- mike_hearn 3y ago
  > Brexit makes it a lot harder for EU nationals to go to the UK. Harder yes, but buserror said it was voting for "literally preventing their daughter and me the life we've been living". That statement is "literally" not true, unless buserror could not have met those requirements at any point in the past decades. Having requirements is not the same thing as absolute prevention.
  - cassianoleal 3y ago
    Maybe they just meant they would have literally made a distinct choice due to the conditions set by Brexit, in which case Brexit would literally prevent that outcome. Maybe not legally, but literality includes the practical aspects of life as well.

ithkuil 3y ago

My father in law, a very right wing italian. Me, a foreigner living in Italy for quite some time now. The way he managed to justify the hatred towards a generic "them" while accepting people like me is a simple trick (I don't know if he came to this conclusion all by himself or with the help of the right wing intellectual class that concoct new tricks every day in the newspapers he reads): He says that these dirty immigrants should go away because there are many criminals. Sure, he says, there are fine people like you, but they are an exception. I object that there are plenty of Italian criminals, and I even try to find data to debunk his claims that more than half of Italian jails are filled up with immigrants (he claims he got those facts from the aforementioned newspapers). But then he just drops his "get out of jail card" and says "ok, sure, we also have plenty of criminals, thieves, rapists, etc; but they are OUR criminals, OUR thieves, OUR rapists; we have to keep them, they are OUR people; I don't want those OTHER people coming here and doing those bad things, we already have our own to deal with". It's all about the absolute certainty that most of the immigrants are here with the explicit intent of doing harm. Normal laws shouldn't apply to them, he says. If you're an immigrant and it looks like you may have done something bad, immediate deportation; the current laws are too lax, he says. they are good for italians, of course, because God forbid his daughter gets arrested just because she superficially looks like somebody who committed a crime, but it's ok for THEM to be treated like that ... ... Because .... because he doesn't know them. He never met THEM. Every time he met an immigrant that immigrant became a PERSON and once that became a person it no longer became one of THEM. That's why he's perfectly fine with the Albanian housekeeper, the Croatian son in law, the Turkish mechanic, .... They all are fine people who are not the dirty criminals the newspapers he reads keep talking about

tim333 3y ago
You can make an argument for screening immigrants for being decent people before letting them in. Most anti immigrant right wingers are ok with doctors etc but want to exclude criminal types.
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Most countries, if not all, already have very complex screening procedures for possible immigrants, and also even for temporary visas. Typically, an official criminal record is a mandatory part of the application. So all inefficient criminals, who have been caught at least once, will be excluded from the immigrants :-)