4 ms·

I’ve generally found ex girlfriends don’t want you back after you dumped her. I suspect this will also be true for the UK and Europe.

ceejayoz 3y ago
Yeah. They’re not getting to keep the pound next time around.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Keeping the pound showed it was never going to work. Nothing says ‘commitment’ like “Sure let’s get married but I want separate bank accounts”.
  - pokepim 3y ago
    [dead]
  - cycomanic 3y ago
    While the UK had plenty of exceptions keeping the currency is not really the most telling IMO. Look at Sweden and Denmark, they both didn't join the currency union (is that the correct English term?), but sentiments are strongly pro EU in both countries. From the outside it always looked like British politicians used the EU as a convenient scapegoat much strongly than in most other EU countries which caused much of the population to have strong negative opinions. I think in many of the other EU countries this tactic has died down significantly at least within the major parties.
- midasuni 3y ago
  U.K. will simply never meet the euro criteria - just like Sweden doesn’t. I’d love the U.K. to join schengen though.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    That many-thousand-miles of coastline thing will make Schengen tricky.
    - midasuni 3y ago
      Schengen coast is far longer - Norway, Greece, Italy. They’re far closer to non European locations too Nobody would land by boat in the U.K. to get into the schengen area (assuming Ireland also joined)
      - Ekaros 3y ago
        Thrown in whole Baltic Sea too... Sea borders really are no issue.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        Fair points. I was completely wrong.
- racktash 3y ago
  Even as a (still!) pro-remainer/pro-EU UK citizen, comments like this always sound a little gleeful to me. The Euro is not a requirement (obviously) of being in the EU. If the sovereign UK or sovereign Ukraine or sovereign Sweden (or Norway, or wherever) want to acquire/retain EU membership but don't want to adopt the Euro, then that's absolutely their right. The EU is a wonderful (and of course imperfect) organisation because it is democratic, because it's a voluntary association of democratic states. Yes, being a member has some basic requirements (like upholding rule of law), but let's not pretend it has to be all or nothing. The UK will I suspect one day rejoin the EU, and when it does, it will be two mature political entities coming to a mutually beneficial agreement.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > The Euro is not a requirement (obviously) of being in the EU. They negotiated an opt-out. That's likely to be much tougher if there's a second go around. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/united-kingdom-emu-opt-out-clause.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/united-ki... > When the Maastricht Treaty was concluded in 1992, the United Kingdom was granted an opt-out clause, meaning that it was not required to participate in the third stage of economic and monetary union (EMU) and consequently introduce the euro.
    - racktash 3y ago
      Yes, therefore it is not required (by this I mean one can be within the EU without being in the Eurozone, whatever the treaty details) – just like Sweden continues to be productively within the union while retaining its own currency. The customisable membership (and again, certain core principles cannot be customised of course) is a strength of the EU.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > If the sovereign UK or sovereign Ukraine or sovereign Sweden (or Norway, or wherever) want to acquire/retain EU membership but don't want to adopt the Euro, then that's absolutely their right. Likewise the EU gets to say "The Euro is a condition of joining, if you don't want to switch currency stop asking to join". The UK may or may not be able to give the EU a reason to let them in without signing up to join the Euro, but given the current lot I doubt it. > The UK will I suspect one day rejoin the EU, and when it does, it will be two mature political entities coming to a mutually beneficial agreement. For it to be only two, that will take a while. Right now it's 27 member states and the EU as a collective entity on one side and the UK as another; this isn't like the USA where nobody negotiates with just Massachusetts on customs, border controls, and which court oversees trade disputes, but instead goes to just DC and they decide for everyone else.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  You sound like a vengeful parent. “Not getting to” is some fantasy of yours, in reality the UK is a sovereign nation and will do what it pleases and if the EU doesn’t agree to their terms there will be no union.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    If the UK wants to join the EU again, their power in the deal will be substantially less than it was the first time around. Back then, they were a founding member; this time around, they'd be joining an already extant, powerful entity they've already pissed off once on the issue. UK-EU negotiations now would be a very different power dynamic than they would've been in 1992. Yes, they can, as a sovereign nation, continue to exist outside the EU. If they want to rejoin, though, they're probably going to have to make concessions. (The parent analogy is, perhaps, apter than you imagined. If you leave home at 18 by saying "fuck you, I hate you, I won't ever live under your rules again!" they may not necessarily let you come back a few years later with the same no-rent policy you previously had.)
vladms 3y ago
UK had special conditions and various exceptions while it was part of the EU. If they would like to rejoin (and doubt that would happen soon, the polls show there are at least some people thinking it was good, and lots of undecided ones) the rest of the EU would not want to give them the same special conditions. Maybe after one generation things will change but for some time I think not much will change on this topic.
TomK32 3y ago
As a German enjoying my rights by living in another EU country I can only say: The UK is welcome to come back, the sooner the better.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Europeans always so damn reasonable. Come to Australia where everyone is greedy selfish and recalcitrant.
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    weird how a foundational myth of australia is that we’re a nation of subversive larrikins, when in actuality everyone here is an ultracop https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/976299234491121665 https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/976299234491121665
    - andrewstuart 3y ago
      Australia is a very conservative country where the majority mostly seem to care about stuff, but only as distant priority to money. Australias politics is essentially “my money” as priority one two three then other stuff like environment.
somewhereoutth 3y ago
Rejoining the Customs Union and the Single Market would be pretty straightforward and agreeable to the EU. Of course it would mean regulation without representation - but play silly games, win silly prizes.
johnnyworker 3y ago
Countries aren't monoliths though. I know there are great people in the UK, why should I hold the Brexit stupidity against them? We have our own share of shameful stuff. Brexit made me terribly sad the second I heard of even the suggestion, before it won the vote. Then, when even the people who were against it just shrugged and said "politicians just have to go by the non-binding referendum, or they won't get re-elected", I was furious and frustrated. I spent all my resentment right then and there, screaming into the void. Now, I'd love to see this stupid bullshit get corrected, yeah. No hard feelings, no grudges. > [..] if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less [..] -- John Donne

ceejayoz 3y ago

Yeah. They’re not getting to keep the pound next time around.

andrewstuart 3y ago
Keeping the pound showed it was never going to work. Nothing says ‘commitment’ like “Sure let’s get married but I want separate bank accounts”.
- pokepim 3y ago
  [dead]
- cycomanic 3y ago
  While the UK had plenty of exceptions keeping the currency is not really the most telling IMO. Look at Sweden and Denmark, they both didn't join the currency union (is that the correct English term?), but sentiments are strongly pro EU in both countries. From the outside it always looked like British politicians used the EU as a convenient scapegoat much strongly than in most other EU countries which caused much of the population to have strong negative opinions. I think in many of the other EU countries this tactic has died down significantly at least within the major parties.
midasuni 3y ago
U.K. will simply never meet the euro criteria - just like Sweden doesn’t. I’d love the U.K. to join schengen though.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  That many-thousand-miles of coastline thing will make Schengen tricky.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    Schengen coast is far longer - Norway, Greece, Italy. They’re far closer to non European locations too Nobody would land by boat in the U.K. to get into the schengen area (assuming Ireland also joined)
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      Thrown in whole Baltic Sea too... Sea borders really are no issue.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      Fair points. I was completely wrong.
racktash 3y ago
Even as a (still!) pro-remainer/pro-EU UK citizen, comments like this always sound a little gleeful to me. The Euro is not a requirement (obviously) of being in the EU. If the sovereign UK or sovereign Ukraine or sovereign Sweden (or Norway, or wherever) want to acquire/retain EU membership but don't want to adopt the Euro, then that's absolutely their right. The EU is a wonderful (and of course imperfect) organisation because it is democratic, because it's a voluntary association of democratic states. Yes, being a member has some basic requirements (like upholding rule of law), but let's not pretend it has to be all or nothing. The UK will I suspect one day rejoin the EU, and when it does, it will be two mature political entities coming to a mutually beneficial agreement.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > The Euro is not a requirement (obviously) of being in the EU. They negotiated an opt-out. That's likely to be much tougher if there's a second go around. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/united-kingdom-emu-opt-out-clause.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/united-ki... > When the Maastricht Treaty was concluded in 1992, the United Kingdom was granted an opt-out clause, meaning that it was not required to participate in the third stage of economic and monetary union (EMU) and consequently introduce the euro.
  - racktash 3y ago
    Yes, therefore it is not required (by this I mean one can be within the EU without being in the Eurozone, whatever the treaty details) – just like Sweden continues to be productively within the union while retaining its own currency. The customisable membership (and again, certain core principles cannot be customised of course) is a strength of the EU.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > If the sovereign UK or sovereign Ukraine or sovereign Sweden (or Norway, or wherever) want to acquire/retain EU membership but don't want to adopt the Euro, then that's absolutely their right. Likewise the EU gets to say "The Euro is a condition of joining, if you don't want to switch currency stop asking to join". The UK may or may not be able to give the EU a reason to let them in without signing up to join the Euro, but given the current lot I doubt it. > The UK will I suspect one day rejoin the EU, and when it does, it will be two mature political entities coming to a mutually beneficial agreement. For it to be only two, that will take a while. Right now it's 27 member states and the EU as a collective entity on one side and the UK as another; this isn't like the USA where nobody negotiates with just Massachusetts on customs, border controls, and which court oversees trade disputes, but instead goes to just DC and they decide for everyone else.
edgyquant 3y ago
You sound like a vengeful parent. “Not getting to” is some fantasy of yours, in reality the UK is a sovereign nation and will do what it pleases and if the EU doesn’t agree to their terms there will be no union.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  If the UK wants to join the EU again, their power in the deal will be substantially less than it was the first time around. Back then, they were a founding member; this time around, they'd be joining an already extant, powerful entity they've already pissed off once on the issue. UK-EU negotiations now would be a very different power dynamic than they would've been in 1992. Yes, they can, as a sovereign nation, continue to exist outside the EU. If they want to rejoin, though, they're probably going to have to make concessions. (The parent analogy is, perhaps, apter than you imagined. If you leave home at 18 by saying "fuck you, I hate you, I won't ever live under your rules again!" they may not necessarily let you come back a few years later with the same no-rent policy you previously had.)

vladms 3y ago

UK had special conditions and various exceptions while it was part of the EU. If they would like to rejoin (and doubt that would happen soon, the polls show there are at least some people thinking it was good, and lots of undecided ones) the rest of the EU would not want to give them the same special conditions. Maybe after one generation things will change but for some time I think not much will change on this topic.

TomK32 3y ago

As a German enjoying my rights by living in another EU country I can only say: The UK is welcome to come back, the sooner the better.

andrewstuart 3y ago
Europeans always so damn reasonable. Come to Australia where everyone is greedy selfish and recalcitrant.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  weird how a foundational myth of australia is that we’re a nation of subversive larrikins, when in actuality everyone here is an ultracop https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/976299234491121665 https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/976299234491121665
  - andrewstuart 3y ago
    Australia is a very conservative country where the majority mostly seem to care about stuff, but only as distant priority to money. Australias politics is essentially “my money” as priority one two three then other stuff like environment.

somewhereoutth 3y ago

Rejoining the Customs Union and the Single Market would be pretty straightforward and agreeable to the EU. Of course it would mean regulation without representation - but play silly games, win silly prizes.

johnnyworker 3y ago

Countries aren't monoliths though. I know there are great people in the UK, why should I hold the Brexit stupidity against them? We have our own share of shameful stuff. Brexit made me terribly sad the second I heard of even the suggestion, before it won the vote. Then, when even the people who were against it just shrugged and said "politicians just have to go by the non-binding referendum, or they won't get re-elected", I was furious and frustrated. I spent all my resentment right then and there, screaming into the void. Now, I'd love to see this stupid bullshit get corrected, yeah. No hard feelings, no grudges. > [..] if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less [..] -- John Donne