4 ms·

Yeah it's just reliably the top 1 or 2 comments on anything related to SBF as well as being discussed in no fewer than 10 articles in a small publication called

Yeah it's just reliably the top 1 or 2 comments on anything related to SBF as well as being discussed in no fewer than 10 articles in a small publication called the New York Times.

keiferski 3y ago
It's not so much that it's avoided entirely, just that the narrative has been about the corruption of the crypto industry and SBF himself and not what the money was used for and what that indicates about the political system as a whole.
- kemotep 3y ago
  Campaign finance reform is a popular issue with voters, not so much policymakers. Same as voting and election reform. What it says is that industries can perform regulatory capture by funding the right people in office. Crypto just doesn’t have the same clout at oil and gas and other groups.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Yeah, I get that it can feel "off," but practically I'd actually much prefer that we focus the money theft conversation on money theft and the campaign reform conversation on campaign reform. I.e. the fraud isn't made worse by the fact it was turned into donations and, likewise, campaign donations of that sort aren't less troublesome when they're made with legitimately-earned money.
  - keiferski 3y ago
    I.e. the fraud isn't made worse by the fact it was turned into donations Not sure how that's true. If he scammed a bunch of people to buy a boat, that's one thing. If he scammed people and then directly influenced a very close election, that seems a little worse?
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      I don't think it makes the scam worse. For example, imagine this was the test case that people wanted to push on campaign finance reform. Politicians finally give in and say "yeah you know you're right, this was really wrong. From now on, funding campaigns via dark money channels with stolen money is punishable by death." Is campaign finance fixed? Did we make any meaningful progress on any actually meaningful problem?
      - keiferski 3y ago
        Fixing campaign finance is a separate issue from the particular scenario that played out. I don't see how that's controversial or confusing. As I said, this seems like a particularly relevant and influential example, considering that it affected a close election.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        What would "good" look like for you?
        keiferski 3y ago
        Good what?
        ethanbond 3y ago
        An adequate handling of the campaign finance component. You're expressing that the handling/reaction/attention toward this facet of the SBF case is inadequate. What would've been adequate to you?
        keiferski 3y ago
        Who did FTX/SBF fund, how close were these elections, what other political consequences were downwind of this? Who would have potentially won without the funding? From a Time article: Bankman-Fried contributed more than $70 million to election campaigns in less than 18 months, placing him among the nation’s top political donors. He personally gave at least $40 million to politicians and political action committees ahead of the 2022 midterm elections, mostly to Democrats and liberal-leaning groups, making him the second overall top donor to Democrats, only behind George Soros, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Bankman-Fried also donated a significant amount to fundraising committees and super PACs affiliated with both parties. The biggest single recipient was Protect Our Future, a Democratic-aligned super PAC that claims it was “designed to help elect candidates who will be champions for pandemic prevention.” The group received $27 million from Bankman-Fried, and supports effective altruism, a philanthropic movement premised on the use of reason and data to allocate money, which Bankman-Fried also supports. Beneficiaries of Protect Our Future include Carrick Flynn, who lost a Democratic primary in Oregon’s 6th District, George Rep. Lucy McBath and Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. The former crypto king made one of the largest donations to Joe Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020, contributing $5.2 million, according to the Wall Street Journal. https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donations/ https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donatio... So again, you're telling me that this guy stole money from regular people and then used it to support a candidate that ultimately won the election? How is that not the single biggest aspect of this story and a daily headline for the last two years?
ethagknight 3y ago
NYT ran stories making him out to being a victim, how his family was "caught on the middle," how FTX was simply a success story turned to bad luck. NYT effectively lead blocking PR
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Can you produce links to and specific passages from the NYT articles that make him out to be a victim?
  - anonymousab 3y ago
    Here's a breakdown of one of them: https://gizmodo.com/nytimes-bizarre-softball-article-ftx-sam-bankman-fried-1849783646 https://gizmodo.com/nytimes-bizarre-softball-article-ftx-sam... It would be more accurate to say that the NYT has been far too eager to positively misrepresent and run interference for crypto in general, so of course the face of crypto got his fair share of that for a couple of years.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      This reads to me like run of the mill softball reporting on white collar crime. I don't get the impression that's what GP was alleging, but if it is, then yep, agreed. If Madoff were stupid enough to take a NYTimes interview shortly after implosion, I don't think it'd look much different. (Edit: Actually, quite a bit more glowing, and not even an interview: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/nyregion/13madoff.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/nyregion/13madoff.html)
vkou 3y ago
Yeah, and it's not like his crimes were stealing money, with where the money went being largely incidental to the theft.

Yeah it's just reliably the top 1 or 2 comments on anything related to SBF as well as being discussed in no fewer than 10 articles in a small publication called the New York Times.

keiferski 3y ago

It's not so much that it's avoided entirely, just that the narrative has been about the corruption of the crypto industry and SBF himself and not what the money was used for and what that indicates about the political system as a whole.

kemotep 3y ago
Campaign finance reform is a popular issue with voters, not so much policymakers. Same as voting and election reform. What it says is that industries can perform regulatory capture by funding the right people in office. Crypto just doesn’t have the same clout at oil and gas and other groups.
ethanbond 3y ago
Yeah, I get that it can feel "off," but practically I'd actually much prefer that we focus the money theft conversation on money theft and the campaign reform conversation on campaign reform. I.e. the fraud isn't made worse by the fact it was turned into donations and, likewise, campaign donations of that sort aren't less troublesome when they're made with legitimately-earned money.
- keiferski 3y ago
  I.e. the fraud isn't made worse by the fact it was turned into donations Not sure how that's true. If he scammed a bunch of people to buy a boat, that's one thing. If he scammed people and then directly influenced a very close election, that seems a little worse?
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    I don't think it makes the scam worse. For example, imagine this was the test case that people wanted to push on campaign finance reform. Politicians finally give in and say "yeah you know you're right, this was really wrong. From now on, funding campaigns via dark money channels with stolen money is punishable by death." Is campaign finance fixed? Did we make any meaningful progress on any actually meaningful problem?
    - keiferski 3y ago
      Fixing campaign finance is a separate issue from the particular scenario that played out. I don't see how that's controversial or confusing. As I said, this seems like a particularly relevant and influential example, considering that it affected a close election.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        What would "good" look like for you?
        keiferski 3y ago
        Good what?
        ethanbond 3y ago
        An adequate handling of the campaign finance component. You're expressing that the handling/reaction/attention toward this facet of the SBF case is inadequate. What would've been adequate to you?
        keiferski 3y ago
        Who did FTX/SBF fund, how close were these elections, what other political consequences were downwind of this? Who would have potentially won without the funding? From a Time article: Bankman-Fried contributed more than $70 million to election campaigns in less than 18 months, placing him among the nation’s top political donors. He personally gave at least $40 million to politicians and political action committees ahead of the 2022 midterm elections, mostly to Democrats and liberal-leaning groups, making him the second overall top donor to Democrats, only behind George Soros, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Bankman-Fried also donated a significant amount to fundraising committees and super PACs affiliated with both parties. The biggest single recipient was Protect Our Future, a Democratic-aligned super PAC that claims it was “designed to help elect candidates who will be champions for pandemic prevention.” The group received $27 million from Bankman-Fried, and supports effective altruism, a philanthropic movement premised on the use of reason and data to allocate money, which Bankman-Fried also supports. Beneficiaries of Protect Our Future include Carrick Flynn, who lost a Democratic primary in Oregon’s 6th District, George Rep. Lucy McBath and Texas Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett. The former crypto king made one of the largest donations to Joe Biden’s presidential campaign in 2020, contributing $5.2 million, according to the Wall Street Journal. https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donations/ https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donatio... So again, you're telling me that this guy stole money from regular people and then used it to support a candidate that ultimately won the election? How is that not the single biggest aspect of this story and a daily headline for the last two years?

ethagknight 3y ago

NYT ran stories making him out to being a victim, how his family was "caught on the middle," how FTX was simply a success story turned to bad luck. NYT effectively lead blocking PR

ethanbond 3y ago
Can you produce links to and specific passages from the NYT articles that make him out to be a victim?
- anonymousab 3y ago
  Here's a breakdown of one of them: https://gizmodo.com/nytimes-bizarre-softball-article-ftx-sam-bankman-fried-1849783646 https://gizmodo.com/nytimes-bizarre-softball-article-ftx-sam... It would be more accurate to say that the NYT has been far too eager to positively misrepresent and run interference for crypto in general, so of course the face of crypto got his fair share of that for a couple of years.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    This reads to me like run of the mill softball reporting on white collar crime. I don't get the impression that's what GP was alleging, but if it is, then yep, agreed. If Madoff were stupid enough to take a NYTimes interview shortly after implosion, I don't think it'd look much different. (Edit: Actually, quite a bit more glowing, and not even an interview: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/nyregion/13madoff.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/nyregion/13madoff.html)

vkou 3y ago

Yeah, and it's not like his crimes were stealing money, with where the money went being largely incidental to the theft.