4 ms·

Among the odder moments came when a government bacteriologist named Frank Olson plunged to his death from the 10th floor in 1953. It was later revealed that he

Among the odder moments came when a government bacteriologist named Frank Olson plunged to his death from the 10th floor in 1953. It was later revealed that he had been slipped LSD as part of an illegal mind-control program overseen by the C.I.A. Seventy years later, the circumstances remain murky. I live in the most [ADJECTIVE] country anywhere.

tobinfricke 3y ago
Subject of a mini-series dramatization by Errol Morris https://youtu.be/b01DL8DTUGM?si=3-vGNv4xjGFtuNIo https://youtu.be/b01DL8DTUGM?si=3-vGNv4xjGFtuNIo
mc32 3y ago
IIRC Ted Kazinsky was part of a similar or same program -mind control ultra.
- chillingeffect 3y ago
  It was an aggressive researcher's interrogation program consisting of constant belittlement. :( Ted was young at Harvard and probably didnt have the wherewithall to refuse or understand what the effects could be.
readthenotes1 3y ago
[flagged]
- marricks 3y ago
  The pissing contests in terms of who is worse usually feels like a defense of our country. (I live in the US) Perhaps we should be most critical of our own country as presumably its where we have the most control and blame.
  - ericmcer 3y ago
    What bar would you judge a society by besides other societies? Idealized futuristic utopias? I don't really agree we should be most critical of our own society. We should be critical of the society that deserves the most criticism.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      > What bar would you judge a society by besides other societies? Idealized futuristic utopias? Yes, obviously. You have an ideal of where you want to be, and you strive towards it, knowing that you may never get there, but that steps towards it are good. How else would we judge our infinite efforts as a citizen improving our country, and progress over time thereof? Criticizing others and sitting back and feeling good about ourselves for doing nothing but at least we're better off (for the moment) than some hypothetic far-off country that exists under different circumstances? > I don't really agree we should be most critical of our own society. We should be critical of the society that deserves the most criticism. I don't really agree that we should focus criticism on where it's unlikely to effect change. Criticism is, at best, a means to an end, and at worst, an attack aimed at others to distract and avoid change ourselves. If we aren't actively working towards that end, our criticism is useless or counterproductive. In the case of a country other than our own, actively working towards that end is unlikely, so the criticism being useless or counterproductive is likely.
      - Retric 3y ago
        > How else would you aim your infinite efforts as a citizen of your country? The problem with aiming for utopia is you don’t understand the problems. People in 1100 couldn’t really conceive of an obesity epidemic and the founding fathers didn’t understand the issues with political parties or lifetime nomination to the Supreme Court. Instead you can understand the local situation and aim for something slightly better. Rather than trying to have nationalized healthcare system what if we lower the age for social security eligibility to 60/55 or add kids under 18 etc.
        3y ago

tobinfricke 3y ago

Subject of a mini-series dramatization by Errol Morris https://youtu.be/b01DL8DTUGM?si=3-vGNv4xjGFtuNIo https://youtu.be/b01DL8DTUGM?si=3-vGNv4xjGFtuNIo

mc32 3y ago

IIRC Ted Kazinsky was part of a similar or same program -mind control ultra.

chillingeffect 3y ago
It was an aggressive researcher's interrogation program consisting of constant belittlement. :( Ted was young at Harvard and probably didnt have the wherewithall to refuse or understand what the effects could be.

readthenotes1 3y ago

[flagged]

marricks 3y ago
The pissing contests in terms of who is worse usually feels like a defense of our country. (I live in the US) Perhaps we should be most critical of our own country as presumably its where we have the most control and blame.
- ericmcer 3y ago
  What bar would you judge a society by besides other societies? Idealized futuristic utopias? I don't really agree we should be most critical of our own society. We should be critical of the society that deserves the most criticism.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    > What bar would you judge a society by besides other societies? Idealized futuristic utopias? Yes, obviously. You have an ideal of where you want to be, and you strive towards it, knowing that you may never get there, but that steps towards it are good. How else would we judge our infinite efforts as a citizen improving our country, and progress over time thereof? Criticizing others and sitting back and feeling good about ourselves for doing nothing but at least we're better off (for the moment) than some hypothetic far-off country that exists under different circumstances? > I don't really agree we should be most critical of our own society. We should be critical of the society that deserves the most criticism. I don't really agree that we should focus criticism on where it's unlikely to effect change. Criticism is, at best, a means to an end, and at worst, an attack aimed at others to distract and avoid change ourselves. If we aren't actively working towards that end, our criticism is useless or counterproductive. In the case of a country other than our own, actively working towards that end is unlikely, so the criticism being useless or counterproductive is likely.
    - Retric 3y ago
      > How else would you aim your infinite efforts as a citizen of your country? The problem with aiming for utopia is you don’t understand the problems. People in 1100 couldn’t really conceive of an obesity epidemic and the founding fathers didn’t understand the issues with political parties or lifetime nomination to the Supreme Court. Instead you can understand the local situation and aim for something slightly better. Rather than trying to have nationalized healthcare system what if we lower the age for social security eligibility to 60/55 or add kids under 18 etc.
      - 3y ago