4 ms·

You're trying to treat a game theory problem as a philosophical consistency problem. We have a group of Christian Dominionists that would kill us if they could

You're trying to treat a game theory problem as a philosophical consistency problem. We have a group of Christian Dominionists that would kill us if they could, and only those consequences stop them. (And sometimes, such as the Pulse shooting, not even then.) In my lifetime, we had these same people saying "thank God for AIDS" and fighting funding for research because they cheered our deaths. There is no moral equivalence here. Then there is a group that wouldn't explicitly kill us, but actively fights against us having equal rights. Prop 8 was exactly that. Prop 8 was forged to actively tear families like mine apart. We were (and are!) being attacked and philosophical consistency has little use in a firefight.

torstenvl 3y ago
Omar Mir Seddique Mateen was not a "Christian Dominionist" and I'm pretty sure you knew that already. "These same people"—which in this thread means Brendan Eich—did not say "thank God for AIDS." And I'm pretty sure you knew that already too. Please stop.
- ebiester 3y ago
  Did you see "Then there's another group" there? The difference in the groups are a function of what they think they can get away with. Do you dispute that Prop 8 was an effort to tear gay families apart?
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    > Do you dispute that Prop 8 was an effort to tear gay families apart? Yes, for three reasons. First, the text of the ballot initiative said and did no such thing; indeed, it left domestic partnerships untouched, which apport "the same rights, protections, and benefits, [as well as] the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties" as marriage. https://web.archive.org/web/20091116180023/http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 https://web.archive.org/web/20091116180023/http://www.leginf... Second, Prop 8 did pass and was the law of the land until 2013, and—predictably, since, as stated above, the text said no such thing—it had no such effect. Lastly, when not explicit in the text, divining the intent of millions of people who voted for the initiative is an exercise in folly. By contrast, death threats and anthrax hoaxes tend to have a pretty negative effect on families. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Proposition_8_supporters#Death_threats_and_vandalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Proposition...

torstenvl 3y ago

Omar Mir Seddique Mateen was not a "Christian Dominionist" and I'm pretty sure you knew that already. "These same people"—which in this thread means Brendan Eich—did not say "thank God for AIDS." And I'm pretty sure you knew that already too. Please stop.

ebiester 3y ago
Did you see "Then there's another group" there? The difference in the groups are a function of what they think they can get away with. Do you dispute that Prop 8 was an effort to tear gay families apart?
- torstenvl 3y ago
  > Do you dispute that Prop 8 was an effort to tear gay families apart? Yes, for three reasons. First, the text of the ballot initiative said and did no such thing; indeed, it left domestic partnerships untouched, which apport "the same rights, protections, and benefits, [as well as] the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties" as marriage. https://web.archive.org/web/20091116180023/http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 https://web.archive.org/web/20091116180023/http://www.leginf... Second, Prop 8 did pass and was the law of the land until 2013, and—predictably, since, as stated above, the text said no such thing—it had no such effect. Lastly, when not explicit in the text, divining the intent of millions of people who voted for the initiative is an exercise in folly. By contrast, death threats and anthrax hoaxes tend to have a pretty negative effect on families. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Proposition_8_supporters#Death_threats_and_vandalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_Proposition...