4 ms·

How does that go on for over 30 years without anyone notifying corporate or regulators? Or did people speak up, but the pattern wasn't stopped (until it had be

by neilv 3y ago

How does that go on for over 30 years without anyone notifying corporate or regulators? Or did people speak up, but the pattern wasn't stopped (until it had been going on for 30 years)?

pas 3y ago
Japan has a strong culture of "don't rock the boat, be sure, very very sure if you accuse someone", and thus accusations are already sentences practically. Couple this with any kind of loyalty, and you immediately see that speaking up will get folks excommunicated (ronins, woah!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk So, probably they kept quiet on the first failed test, made it go away to save face, and then there was no going back.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Do you have experience (or expertise) with Japanese culture? > So, probably they kept quiet on the first failed test, made it go away to save face, and then there was no going back. That is an essential lesson of integrity: Lie now and you may end up telling the same lie every day going forward.
  - pas 3y ago
    Not directly. I'm basing it on the similar Kobe Steel aluminum and copper scandal and report. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298649 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298649
- theoekejjjbdej 3y ago
  [flagged]
SoftTalker 3y ago
From reading through some of the reports linked in the CNN article, it sounds like in a lot of cases the test employee was taking shortcuts such as reporting results from the left side of the vehicle as results from the right side of the vehicle under the belief that there was no substantive difference, or not properly adjusting the tire pressure before the test and reporting that it had been adjusted. It still illustrates that this sort of stuff was either tolerated or not detected, but in all honestly it sounds (to me) like a lot of it was pretty minor stuff. It's not like the car exploded in a raging fireball on the test stand and the reported result was "A++ would buy" like Ford did with the Pinto.
- phonon 3y ago
  "tests on the airbags of Daihatsu Move/Subaru Stella, Daihatsu Cast/Toyota Pixis Joy, Daihatsu Gran Max/Toyota Town Ace/Mazda Bongo revealed the irregularity that the “airbags deployment computer (ECU)” was not the same as that of mass-produced products." https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20231220-4.html https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20231220-4.html
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    But what does that mean? Was it a prototype because the production model wasn't ready yet? Was it hand-built as opposed to "mass produced" but presumed and intended to be functionally identical, or was it intentionally different for the purpose of passing the test, knowing that the actual computer would not?
    - numpad0 3y ago
      They built ceritifcation specials to pass tests. Which means the devices under test were not representative of mass produced examples. Specifically they flashed some custom ROM on a airbag computer so it auto-deploys at scheduled T+ time from the beginning of a test run. That's kind of a huge deal because we wouldn't know if airbag is going to deploy in real crashes. Other tampering includes ignoring requirement that crashes must also unlock front doors, reporting numbers from a note hidden in palm while the test is running instead of from gauges, so on and so forth.

by neilv 3y ago

How does that go on for over 30 years without anyone notifying corporate or regulators? Or did people speak up, but the pattern wasn't stopped (until it had been going on for 30 years)?

pas 3y ago

Japan has a strong culture of "don't rock the boat, be sure, very very sure if you accuse someone", and thus accusations are already sentences practically. Couple this with any kind of loyalty, and you immediately see that speaking up will get folks excommunicated (ronins, woah!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk So, probably they kept quiet on the first failed test, made it go away to save face, and then there was no going back.

wolverine876 3y ago
Do you have experience (or expertise) with Japanese culture? > So, probably they kept quiet on the first failed test, made it go away to save face, and then there was no going back. That is an essential lesson of integrity: Lie now and you may end up telling the same lie every day going forward.
- pas 3y ago
  Not directly. I'm basing it on the similar Kobe Steel aluminum and copper scandal and report. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298649 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43298649
theoekejjjbdej 3y ago
[flagged]

SoftTalker 3y ago

From reading through some of the reports linked in the CNN article, it sounds like in a lot of cases the test employee was taking shortcuts such as reporting results from the left side of the vehicle as results from the right side of the vehicle under the belief that there was no substantive difference, or not properly adjusting the tire pressure before the test and reporting that it had been adjusted. It still illustrates that this sort of stuff was either tolerated or not detected, but in all honestly it sounds (to me) like a lot of it was pretty minor stuff. It's not like the car exploded in a raging fireball on the test stand and the reported result was "A++ would buy" like Ford did with the Pinto.

phonon 3y ago
"tests on the airbags of Daihatsu Move/Subaru Stella, Daihatsu Cast/Toyota Pixis Joy, Daihatsu Gran Max/Toyota Town Ace/Mazda Bongo revealed the irregularity that the “airbags deployment computer (ECU)” was not the same as that of mass-produced products." https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20231220-4.html https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20231220-4.html
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  But what does that mean? Was it a prototype because the production model wasn't ready yet? Was it hand-built as opposed to "mass produced" but presumed and intended to be functionally identical, or was it intentionally different for the purpose of passing the test, knowing that the actual computer would not?
  - numpad0 3y ago
    They built ceritifcation specials to pass tests. Which means the devices under test were not representative of mass produced examples. Specifically they flashed some custom ROM on a airbag computer so it auto-deploys at scheduled T+ time from the beginning of a test run. That's kind of a huge deal because we wouldn't know if airbag is going to deploy in real crashes. Other tampering includes ignoring requirement that crashes must also unlock front doors, reporting numbers from a note hidden in palm while the test is running instead of from gauges, so on and so forth.