4 ms·

This could be good, but as always the second-order ramifications could be troublesome (only big agricultural business would be able to afford to have crops, etc

by ergl 3y ago

This could be good, but as always the second-order ramifications could be troublesome (only big agricultural business would be able to afford to have crops, etc, etc). "Cadillac Desert" is a good read to see how bonkers the water system can be (and was devised to be) in the US West, because it basically tries to turn the desert into a garden. The only problem is that there's just not enough water to do that. Another good story in the New York times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/28/climate/groundwater-drying-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/28/climate/groun... (which was discussed in HN, as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37306841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37306841 )

HWR_14 3y ago
Why would only big agricultural business be able to afford to have crops? Water use, and thus costs, should scale linearly with acreage.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Might there be edge effects? (thinking of There Will Be Blood and the famous "Drainage!" scene)
  - mcguire 3y ago
    From the article: "While corporate growers of premium products like berries, which are shipped to the shelves of major chains like Whole Foods, Safeway and Trader Joe’s, can absorb the price of Pajaro’s water, there is no way farmers of commodity crops like cotton, alfalfa and soybeans can make the economics work, said David Sanford, the agricultural commissioner of the Santa Cruz County, which includes the Pajaro Valley. "In the years since the price on water was imposed, growers of those crops either shifted to high-priced berries and lettuces, or simply left the region for cheaper pastures." The increased cost could only be handled by shifting to higher-margin crops. On the other hand, anyone growing alfalfa or soybeans in the stinking desert deserves whatever happens to them.
    - Matticus_Rex 3y ago
      That's not really a big agribusiness vs. small farm thing -- it's just not going to make sense to grow those in the desert if the farmers have to actually pay the cost of the water. Classic case of internalizing the externalities.
      - seanp2k2 3y ago
        It’s hilarious to see all the “Congress created [sic] dust bowl” signs down I-5 through the Central Valley when you consider how much of the land there was given to them for free through homestead acts, and taxpayers subsidize their water. Add in the extensive use of undocumented workers to make even more profits and I doubt many would be too sad if we just let them pay the actual costs of running their business, which wouldn’t work without all these subsidies. I’m not sure if it’s sheer audacity or just ignorance of their own situation that emboldens them to support politicians who aim to deport their laborers.
        sc68cal 3y ago
        It's classic rent seeking behavior where they want all their inputs to be free and all costs to be externalized
        Log_out_ 3y ago
        It's becoming even more so if you compare it to Israel's water/cost input output..
m463 3y ago
I might also be fun to read "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi (science fiction, he won hugo, nebula, etc awards for other books) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water_Knife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water_Knife

by ergl 3y ago

HWR_14 3y ago

Why would only big agricultural business be able to afford to have crops? Water use, and thus costs, should scale linearly with acreage.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
HPsquared 3y ago
Might there be edge effects? (thinking of There Will Be Blood and the famous "Drainage!" scene)
- mcguire 3y ago
  From the article: "While corporate growers of premium products like berries, which are shipped to the shelves of major chains like Whole Foods, Safeway and Trader Joe’s, can absorb the price of Pajaro’s water, there is no way farmers of commodity crops like cotton, alfalfa and soybeans can make the economics work, said David Sanford, the agricultural commissioner of the Santa Cruz County, which includes the Pajaro Valley. "In the years since the price on water was imposed, growers of those crops either shifted to high-priced berries and lettuces, or simply left the region for cheaper pastures." The increased cost could only be handled by shifting to higher-margin crops. On the other hand, anyone growing alfalfa or soybeans in the stinking desert deserves whatever happens to them.
  - Matticus_Rex 3y ago
    That's not really a big agribusiness vs. small farm thing -- it's just not going to make sense to grow those in the desert if the farmers have to actually pay the cost of the water. Classic case of internalizing the externalities.
    - seanp2k2 3y ago
      It’s hilarious to see all the “Congress created [sic] dust bowl” signs down I-5 through the Central Valley when you consider how much of the land there was given to them for free through homestead acts, and taxpayers subsidize their water. Add in the extensive use of undocumented workers to make even more profits and I doubt many would be too sad if we just let them pay the actual costs of running their business, which wouldn’t work without all these subsidies. I’m not sure if it’s sheer audacity or just ignorance of their own situation that emboldens them to support politicians who aim to deport their laborers.
      - sc68cal 3y ago
        It's classic rent seeking behavior where they want all their inputs to be free and all costs to be externalized
      - Log_out_ 3y ago
        It's becoming even more so if you compare it to Israel's water/cost input output..

m463 3y ago

I might also be fun to read "The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi (science fiction, he won hugo, nebula, etc awards for other books) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water_Knife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Water_Knife