5 ms·

France?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Coasting on old nuclear. They’ve been importing renewables from Germany due to reduced capacity factor. The fleet is a money pit. https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/embattled-edf-stuck-with-30bn-bill-from-ailing-nuclear-fleet-as-utility-makes-massive-loss/2-1-1406062 https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/embattled-edf... https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230105-how-france-s-prized-nuclear-sector-stalled-in-europe-s-hour-of-need https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230105-how-france-s-pri...
- mpweiher 3y ago
  Old news, a one time occurrence in 2022 when they scheduled a lot of inspections and maintenance they had put off in the COVID years. At that point the long underinvestment caught up with them. In 2023, they were net exporting again, like they were in the last 20+ years or so. But you are right that they had been coasting and were exploiting their nuclear plants without reinvesting. That has now changed.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
pedrocr 3y ago
According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_France#Nuclear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Fran... the last time France put a new nuclear reactor online was over 20 years ago. There was probably a window where we could have powered our grids with nuclear and done well with that versus the alternatives. A bunch of factors, including lobbying by fossil fuel interests, meant that didn't happen. These days that same lobbying and other factors are fighting against solar+wind+hydro but hopefully this time it's unstoppable. The fact that solar and wind are distributed and don't have extreme tail risks helps a lot. Nuclear was too easy to stop because of the extremely complex projects and very unlikely but very high magnitude risks.
- mpweiher 3y ago
  France was on the renewables train until last year. They've since changed course and are reinvesting massively into nuclear. Macron calls for nuclear 'renaissance' to end the France's reliance on fossil fuels https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/11/macron-calls-for-nuclear-renaissance-to-end-the-france-s-reliance-on-fossil-fuels https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/11/macron-calls-for-n... This is not just talk France's Assemblée Nationale adopts 'nuclear acceleration' bill on first reading https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/21/france-s-assemblee-nationale-adopts-nuclear-acceleration-bill-on-first-reading_6020219_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/21/france-s... 402 votes in favor, 130 against. 75% approval. So broad consensus. p.s.: Doesn't mean they are stopping renewables entirely. Still doing some off-shore wind that can be brought online relatively quickly.
Krasnol 3y ago
...renationalized EDF because it's so unprofitable, can't build a single reactor on time and on budget and has to subsidize every Watt sold with taxpayer money, so people don't go on the street and burn Cities down.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Or China, which built an AP1000 in nine years [1], about as long as it takes us to NEPA a transmission line [2]. Given about half of that was waiting for a reactor-coolant pump, it can likely be done in 5. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/a-double-first-in-china-for-advanced-nuclear-reactors https://spectrum.ieee.org/a-double-first-in-china-for-advanc... [2] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/transmission-clean-energy-storage-grid-enhancing-technology-dlr-distributed-resources/651567/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/transmission-clean-energy-s...
- flashback2199 3y ago
  Withdrawn
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > impossible to draw any conclusion from a successful big project abroad Wait, we can draw conclusions from France building a different reactor (but only its latest ones, which were most expensive) but not from China building an AP1000?
    - flashback2199 3y ago
      Withdrawn
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > China's economy is a black box We can independently verify the plant was built. And we can confirm what Westinghouse was paid. We can’t see other costs incurred, which is why I’m solely citing them for time, not cost.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

France?

Coasting on old nuclear. They’ve been importing renewables from Germany due to reduced capacity factor. The fleet is a money pit. https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/embattled-edf-stuck-with-30bn-bill-from-ailing-nuclear-fleet-as-utility-makes-massive-loss/2-1-1406062 https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/embattled-edf... https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230105-how-france-s-prized-nuclear-sector-stalled-in-europe-s-hour-of-need https://www.france24.com/en/france/20230105-how-france-s-pri...

mpweiher 3y ago
Old news, a one time occurrence in 2022 when they scheduled a lot of inspections and maintenance they had put off in the COVID years. At that point the long underinvestment caught up with them. In 2023, they were net exporting again, like they were in the last 20+ years or so. But you are right that they had been coasting and were exploiting their nuclear plants without reinvesting. That has now changed.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

pedrocr 3y ago

According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_France#Nuclear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Fran... the last time France put a new nuclear reactor online was over 20 years ago. There was probably a window where we could have powered our grids with nuclear and done well with that versus the alternatives. A bunch of factors, including lobbying by fossil fuel interests, meant that didn't happen. These days that same lobbying and other factors are fighting against solar+wind+hydro but hopefully this time it's unstoppable. The fact that solar and wind are distributed and don't have extreme tail risks helps a lot. Nuclear was too easy to stop because of the extremely complex projects and very unlikely but very high magnitude risks.

mpweiher 3y ago
France was on the renewables train until last year. They've since changed course and are reinvesting massively into nuclear. Macron calls for nuclear 'renaissance' to end the France's reliance on fossil fuels https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/11/macron-calls-for-nuclear-renaissance-to-end-the-france-s-reliance-on-fossil-fuels https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/11/macron-calls-for-n... This is not just talk France's Assemblée Nationale adopts 'nuclear acceleration' bill on first reading https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/21/france-s-assemblee-nationale-adopts-nuclear-acceleration-bill-on-first-reading_6020219_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/03/21/france-s... 402 votes in favor, 130 against. 75% approval. So broad consensus. p.s.: Doesn't mean they are stopping renewables entirely. Still doing some off-shore wind that can be brought online relatively quickly.

Krasnol 3y ago

...renationalized EDF because it's so unprofitable, can't build a single reactor on time and on budget and has to subsidize every Watt sold with taxpayer money, so people don't go on the street and burn Cities down.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

Or China, which built an AP1000 in nine years [1], about as long as it takes us to NEPA a transmission line [2]. Given about half of that was waiting for a reactor-coolant pump, it can likely be done in 5. [1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/a-double-first-in-china-for-advanced-nuclear-reactors https://spectrum.ieee.org/a-double-first-in-china-for-advanc... [2] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/transmission-clean-energy-storage-grid-enhancing-technology-dlr-distributed-resources/651567/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/transmission-clean-energy-s...

flashback2199 3y ago
Withdrawn
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > impossible to draw any conclusion from a successful big project abroad Wait, we can draw conclusions from France building a different reactor (but only its latest ones, which were most expensive) but not from China building an AP1000?
  - flashback2199 3y ago
    Withdrawn
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > China's economy is a black box We can independently verify the plant was built. And we can confirm what Westinghouse was paid. We can’t see other costs incurred, which is why I’m solely citing them for time, not cost.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]