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Assuming we want li-ion for grid storage. I feel we don't have a choice but hardly optimal. The worst case is an unbalanced grid that leads to blackouts and/or

by tjoff 3y ago

Assuming we want li-ion for grid storage. I feel we don't have a choice but hardly optimal. The worst case is an unbalanced grid that leads to blackouts and/or disruptions. Not that we waste energy.

ben_w 3y ago
> The worst case is an unbalanced grid that leads to blackouts and/or disruptions. Not that we waste energy. As the old gas plants don't magically cease to exist after N years, while this is technically correct it's about as important as pointing out the non-zero risk of a supervolcano blocking out 80% of sunlight worldwide for a decade.
- tjoff 3y ago
  Sigh, not with the expected increase in energy consumption. And other sources that we do intend to shut down. Also depends on where you live.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > not with the expected increase in energy consumption Energy consumption is always strictly limited by energy supply. > And other sources that we do intend to shut down. "We" "intend" many things, but if there's a danger of blackouts or brownouts, we find ways to keep power plants running longer because (despite appearances) the people in charge mostly aren't idiots, and the few exceptions (in this context, Texas) provide ample evidence to everyone else. > Also depends on where you live. Unless you mean the imminent danger of airstrikes to Ukrainian, Gazan, etc. power stations, that sentence fragment is too vague to communicate anything. And if you do, sure, but that's still an issue for literally all possible power plants given no structures are safe in war zones.
    - tjoff 3y ago
      Ironic... Anyway, I'm comforted to know that the magic hand of the market will solve this problem in the most efficient way and with a proper focus on the climate, as it always has.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        I didn't say that. It will fix it, but it is only aligned to profit, which just happens to currently be aligned with climate, and that might well be mere luck.

by tjoff 3y ago

Assuming we want li-ion for grid storage. I feel we don't have a choice but hardly optimal. The worst case is an unbalanced grid that leads to blackouts and/or disruptions. Not that we waste energy.

ben_w 3y ago

> The worst case is an unbalanced grid that leads to blackouts and/or disruptions. Not that we waste energy. As the old gas plants don't magically cease to exist after N years, while this is technically correct it's about as important as pointing out the non-zero risk of a supervolcano blocking out 80% of sunlight worldwide for a decade.

tjoff 3y ago
Sigh, not with the expected increase in energy consumption. And other sources that we do intend to shut down. Also depends on where you live.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > not with the expected increase in energy consumption Energy consumption is always strictly limited by energy supply. > And other sources that we do intend to shut down. "We" "intend" many things, but if there's a danger of blackouts or brownouts, we find ways to keep power plants running longer because (despite appearances) the people in charge mostly aren't idiots, and the few exceptions (in this context, Texas) provide ample evidence to everyone else. > Also depends on where you live. Unless you mean the imminent danger of airstrikes to Ukrainian, Gazan, etc. power stations, that sentence fragment is too vague to communicate anything. And if you do, sure, but that's still an issue for literally all possible power plants given no structures are safe in war zones.
  - tjoff 3y ago
    Ironic... Anyway, I'm comforted to know that the magic hand of the market will solve this problem in the most efficient way and with a proper focus on the climate, as it always has.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      I didn't say that. It will fix it, but it is only aligned to profit, which just happens to currently be aligned with climate, and that might well be mere luck.