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In my experience, while these kinds of visas address personal tax liability, many US-based companies are still unlikely to allow W2 employees to participate due
by cddotdotslash 3y ago
In my experience, while these kinds of visas address personal tax liability, many US-based companies are still unlikely to allow W2 employees to participate due to (very real) tax, jurisdiction, and legal concerns (if a W2 employee is working in France, for example, are they required to comply with laws preventing employers from contacting employees on weekends? Maybe not, but even “fully remote” companies are unlikely to want to spend time figuring it out for one employee).
I think countries who want these programs to take off for employees who aren’t contractors need to invest in messaging and legal support for employers as well.
- ciabattabread 3y agoHow does this work practically for a US-based company? Since this is a remote work visa, can they even physically work at a Korea-based office or subsidiary? Also, there's a 17 hour time difference between Korea and Los Angeles.
- huimang 3y ago> The workcation visa doesn't allow holders to apply for a job within Korea. Foreigners will need other working visas to do so. My understanding is there are other visas for people working at a Korea-based office. It definitely won't work for people who need to be on the same working hours though. I've done that with east coast (13 hours ahead) and it was rough.
- CPLX 3y agoOut of sheer curiosity, what's the difference between a 17 hour difference and a 7 hour difference? I guess the day of the week?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- redleader55 3y agoIt's Friday in US, but Saturday in Korea. On Monday in Korea, you have to wait until the next day for them to work. You only have 1h-2h before the work day in Korea to sync with them in US, only on the West Coast, only 4 days a week.
- csa 3y agoFor “nomads”, I think the more common situation is that the nomad works roughly 2am to 10am Tuesday to Saturday, maybe shifted to 6am to 2pm for half day overlap. There are no syncing issues this way.
- JohnMakin 3y agoOr just work at off hours. That’s how I’ve always worked with asia-based teams.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Tyr42 3y ago24 - 17 hour difference is 7 hour difference.
- londons_explore 3y ago> I think countries who want these programs to take off for employees who aren’t contractors need to invest in messaging and legal support for employers as well. The logical thing to do is to allow both employee and employer to sign a document saying "we both agree that the employment laws of X will not apply, and all employment disputes will be resolved by the courts of Y country according to their laws". X country would make an explicit law allowing digital nomads to do such a thing, perhaps with limits on Y (ie. require the company to have links to Y, or blacklist countries with zero employee protections whatsoever).
- paxys 3y agoThere is zero chance any country is going to allow a bunch of foreigners in and say "you are formally exempt from our laws".
- londons_explore 3y agowell it wouldn't be all laws... just employment law.
- ptsneves 3y agoEmployment laws not negotiable by design. One reason is so an employer cannot use their collective power against the individual worker. An employment contract is not a regular contract and can only be made according to rules otherwise it void and the court will find out the real nature of the contract for you. Even in the US employment contracts mention that all dispositions are valid only when not in conflict with law. The same happens in Europe. I have a relative who is a work inspector and one case she always points out is the non compete or non disclosure clauses. She says if the contract does not give an obvious compensation for those clauses they will always be voided if tested in court, regardless of both parties having signed them. The threat power often remains though, because people are afraid of falling into such clauses so they self comply without any reason for it. I had work contracts for a developer work where it basically stated I could not have a blog without approval. I found it ridiculous and knew it was likely unenforceable but the tick stays in your head.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago> are they required to comply with laws preventing employers from contacting employees on weekends? Almost certainly they are, as the same is even true with employment across state lines in the US. Labor laws are almost always determined by the employee’s place of residence vs. where the company is located.
- cddotdotslash 3y agoExactly, and most countries promoting these visas refuse to clearly state what the foreign employers are exempt from or responsible for. I went through this myself a few years ago. I applied for, and received, a Taiwanese Gold Card (a similar program that allowed for foreign employment). I spent months going back and forth with the Taiwanese office attempting to understand what my employer at the time would be signing up for. They couldn’t give a clear answer on whether my presence would create a nexus for my employer, whether my employer would become responsible for health care program payments, etc. They kept referring me to one of the big four consulting companies. In the end I gave up and never entered.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoI think they’re mostly designed around wealthy contract workers vs. W2s, which has always been a “figure it out yourself” tax situation. I work for a global remote company on a W2 and looked at a few of these programs, but almost none are designed with this kind of arrangement in mind. You’d have to more or less go through the normal immigration routes as full time staff and your company comply with all the local employment and tax laws.
- rmbyrro 3y agoI don't think this is targeted at large corporation employees. More intended for freelancers, small entrepreneurs, and remote workers of small businesses.
- ryanisnan 3y agoMy learned advice is if you are thinking about this, find a startup. Most enterprise orgs would not let you do this as a US based employee.