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"My content is mine" How much of your education and upbringing did you get for free? You were brought up and educated by society to be in the fortunate positio

"My content is mine" How much of your education and upbringing did you get for free? You were brought up and educated by society to be in the fortunate position of being a content creator. You are now suggesting that you owe nothing back to society in return.

andrepd 3y ago
Top post right here. It's a shame that the very concept of a social contract has fallen so much out of favour in our individualistic and aggressively capitalist society. The truth is everyone who has a business or "creates content" or does any economic activity owes it (to themselves, but also) to the society they are inserted in: be it material stuff like roads to carry your products and an affluent and secure population to buy it, or immaterial stuff like, oh I don't know, the collective achievement of Humanity so far on whose shoulders we all stand.
- okr 3y ago
  "Yeah, the roads we built with your machines, you have to pay us that we use them so that our work got easier by your invention, because, we educated you!!" (says the slave owner)
- nirvdrum 3y ago
  Presumably the content creators are paying taxes just like the rest of us. Many almost certainly improve society in other ways.
  - w4ffl35 3y ago
    > Presumably the content creators are paying taxes just like the rest of us Correct. This content creator has also been a software engineer for 20 years. Paid a lot of taxes. Not sure why I'm supposed to owe anything to anyone.
- w4ffl35 3y ago
  > It's a shame For who?
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    Everyone.
okr 3y ago
I agree. We should not get paid for the work we do, because we owe it to our societies, who brought us up and educated us! In fact, we should pay back the taxes, that were invested in us. So, maybe with 70 we are taxdebt free and can start working for ourselves. ;)
hef19898 3y ago
Oh, I'd be happy to give free, but not exclusive use of my stzff to, I don't know, charities I like. You want to use my stuff for advertizing and make mobey off of it, not so much. Because that would be a business trabsaction, and I don't like being taken advantage off. As for education, the social contract where I live is the following: Education is free, as in state financed through taxes we all pay, up to grad school. MBAs and PhDs are different, the former cost you money, the latter get you paid. None of that contract includes giving content I create for myself, I said I do it as hobby, away for free so others can monetize it. Nor does it mean to use the skills I earned during my education for minimium wage, quite the opposite, the more I make the more taxes I pay. Were I a professional cobtwbt creator, as in earbing my living with it, that would make copyright violations even worse, because they directly impact my ability to pay bills. Tght huge corps abuse copyright and trademark laws doesn't mean those are bad, just imagine how abusive those big corps would be if the small creators would no protection of their work whatsoever.
w4ffl35 3y ago
NO ONE owes anything to society. No debt in incurred for one's public education. What an incredibly weird way of looking at one's life. I'll take this further: I was homeschooled and almost entirely SELF educated. That includes everything I know about programming. I've worked for 20 years and paid taxes. Explain how I owe anything to anyone.
- haswell 3y ago
  Fellow home schooled person and autodidact here. Our obligation to society is ongoing. It’s not as if the only benefit we enjoy is the education system that we did not utilize. A system of lesser consequence than the human knowledge the system exists to perpetuate. Knowledge that you, too, benefited from during your home/self education. When you say self taught, I assume you used some kind of books/curriculum as I did?
  - w4ffl35 3y ago
    You've missed my point. Absolutely nothing is inherently owed to society. There is no obligation at all. I can live my life in a cave if I choose. The discussion need not progress past that point. However: Yes, books that were purchased by my parents, who paid their taxes.
    - haswell 3y ago
      As far as I can tell, I disagree with your point but have not missed it. > Absolutely nothing is inherently owed to society. There is no obligation at all. As a member of a social species of animal, why do you believe this to be true? > I can live my life in a cave if I choose. Living in a cave is choosing to stop participating in society. If you’re not living in a cave, and if you’re participating in discussions on HN using a computing device, you have obligations. > Yes, books that were purchased by my parents, who paid their taxes. The value of those books is not primarily monetary. Those books have utility because they are transmitting the collective knowledge of our species; ancestors whose thoughts and discoveries are the basis of our lives today. Many people never stop to consider or admit their dependence on this ancestral knowledge, or their own responsibilities as a beneficiary of it. Almost everything we come in contact with (unless you disconnect and go to that cave), comes with implied collective responsibilities. Paying taxes is the minimum legally required level of contribution, but far from the only required activity to maintain a functioning society. You might say that you don’t like this society or would prefer a different one, but the only solution to these problems is to involve yourself in the process, which is the only path to changing the status quo.
sensanaty 3y ago
His education and his upbringing definitely weren't free, they were paid for by his parent's taxes, and he is now repaying society by paying taxes himself (I mean, presumably, obviously if he's dodging taxes then that's a different discussion :P). He doesn't owe society (and let's be real, in this specific topic we're really talking about megacorps with literally trillions of dollars in their coffers wanting to absorb as much data as they can en-masse for free in order to train their toy AIs with which they'll earn a few more trillions off the backs of others) a release of whatever it is he creates for no recompense.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  "He doesn't owe society" Whether one owes or has an obligation to society or not is the big philosophical divide in society these days. No doubt education and upbringing aren't completely free but formal training is only a small aspect of a citizen's socialization and training, the rest comes from his/her interaction with society—which is free. "...(and let's be real, in this specific topic we're really talking about megacorps with literally trillions of dollars in their coffers..." I agree, but this is a separate issue and I should have made a distinction between what one 'owes' society and what megacorps are leeching from society for free. Then there's the question of how much prior art one has learned (no one creates in a vacuum, one always builds on the works of others, so there's a philosophical argument about how much original content one has actually created). Look at it this way: megacorps are not only leeching information from society for free (through AI and other means) but also they're 'stealing' once-open stuff from the public domain and making it proprietary on the flimsiest of grounds through questionable patents and trivial copyright—all of which is legal. Most megacorps are public companies and thus are owned by shareholders who, in turn, are citizens in society. If hef19898 wants AI megacorps etc. to stop stealing his content then he will have to get cooperation from his fellow citizens—many of whom are shareholders in said companies. Fact is, in the great scheme of things the pecuniary interest of these shareholding citizens holds much greater sway in society than do the moral rights of hef19898 and his ilk. If this were not so then said megacorps wouldn't be able to 'rape' the defenseless as they have been doing for decades. As I've mentioned, hef19898 and ilk simply don't have the numbers to change things. It's obvious, there are no masses with placards blocking Pennsylvania Avenue or throngs protesting around the Capitol to bring the megacorps to heel. Until then hef19898 will just have to accept that his content will be stolen.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>You are now suggesting that you owe nothing back to society in return. how so? You sell a work, people buy it and are taxed. You make income and the govt. takes some of that income as tax for that very societal eductation they cultivate. trying to evade that is in fact punished, severely. What more do you owe society than a literal part of your wealth? From the govt's POV, giving away stuff for free is worse than selling it.

andrepd 3y ago

Top post right here. It's a shame that the very concept of a social contract has fallen so much out of favour in our individualistic and aggressively capitalist society. The truth is everyone who has a business or "creates content" or does any economic activity owes it (to themselves, but also) to the society they are inserted in: be it material stuff like roads to carry your products and an affluent and secure population to buy it, or immaterial stuff like, oh I don't know, the collective achievement of Humanity so far on whose shoulders we all stand.

okr 3y ago
"Yeah, the roads we built with your machines, you have to pay us that we use them so that our work got easier by your invention, because, we educated you!!" (says the slave owner)
nirvdrum 3y ago
Presumably the content creators are paying taxes just like the rest of us. Many almost certainly improve society in other ways.
- w4ffl35 3y ago
  > Presumably the content creators are paying taxes just like the rest of us Correct. This content creator has also been a software engineer for 20 years. Paid a lot of taxes. Not sure why I'm supposed to owe anything to anyone.
w4ffl35 3y ago
> It's a shame For who?
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Everyone.

okr 3y ago

I agree. We should not get paid for the work we do, because we owe it to our societies, who brought us up and educated us! In fact, we should pay back the taxes, that were invested in us. So, maybe with 70 we are taxdebt free and can start working for ourselves. ;)

hef19898 3y ago

Oh, I'd be happy to give free, but not exclusive use of my stzff to, I don't know, charities I like. You want to use my stuff for advertizing and make mobey off of it, not so much. Because that would be a business trabsaction, and I don't like being taken advantage off. As for education, the social contract where I live is the following: Education is free, as in state financed through taxes we all pay, up to grad school. MBAs and PhDs are different, the former cost you money, the latter get you paid. None of that contract includes giving content I create for myself, I said I do it as hobby, away for free so others can monetize it. Nor does it mean to use the skills I earned during my education for minimium wage, quite the opposite, the more I make the more taxes I pay. Were I a professional cobtwbt creator, as in earbing my living with it, that would make copyright violations even worse, because they directly impact my ability to pay bills. Tght huge corps abuse copyright and trademark laws doesn't mean those are bad, just imagine how abusive those big corps would be if the small creators would no protection of their work whatsoever.

w4ffl35 3y ago

NO ONE owes anything to society. No debt in incurred for one's public education. What an incredibly weird way of looking at one's life. I'll take this further: I was homeschooled and almost entirely SELF educated. That includes everything I know about programming. I've worked for 20 years and paid taxes. Explain how I owe anything to anyone.

haswell 3y ago
Fellow home schooled person and autodidact here. Our obligation to society is ongoing. It’s not as if the only benefit we enjoy is the education system that we did not utilize. A system of lesser consequence than the human knowledge the system exists to perpetuate. Knowledge that you, too, benefited from during your home/self education. When you say self taught, I assume you used some kind of books/curriculum as I did?
- w4ffl35 3y ago
  You've missed my point. Absolutely nothing is inherently owed to society. There is no obligation at all. I can live my life in a cave if I choose. The discussion need not progress past that point. However: Yes, books that were purchased by my parents, who paid their taxes.
  - haswell 3y ago
    As far as I can tell, I disagree with your point but have not missed it. > Absolutely nothing is inherently owed to society. There is no obligation at all. As a member of a social species of animal, why do you believe this to be true? > I can live my life in a cave if I choose. Living in a cave is choosing to stop participating in society. If you’re not living in a cave, and if you’re participating in discussions on HN using a computing device, you have obligations. > Yes, books that were purchased by my parents, who paid their taxes. The value of those books is not primarily monetary. Those books have utility because they are transmitting the collective knowledge of our species; ancestors whose thoughts and discoveries are the basis of our lives today. Many people never stop to consider or admit their dependence on this ancestral knowledge, or their own responsibilities as a beneficiary of it. Almost everything we come in contact with (unless you disconnect and go to that cave), comes with implied collective responsibilities. Paying taxes is the minimum legally required level of contribution, but far from the only required activity to maintain a functioning society. You might say that you don’t like this society or would prefer a different one, but the only solution to these problems is to involve yourself in the process, which is the only path to changing the status quo.

sensanaty 3y ago

His education and his upbringing definitely weren't free, they were paid for by his parent's taxes, and he is now repaying society by paying taxes himself (I mean, presumably, obviously if he's dodging taxes then that's a different discussion :P). He doesn't owe society (and let's be real, in this specific topic we're really talking about megacorps with literally trillions of dollars in their coffers wanting to absorb as much data as they can en-masse for free in order to train their toy AIs with which they'll earn a few more trillions off the backs of others) a release of whatever it is he creates for no recompense.

hilbert42 3y ago
"He doesn't owe society" Whether one owes or has an obligation to society or not is the big philosophical divide in society these days. No doubt education and upbringing aren't completely free but formal training is only a small aspect of a citizen's socialization and training, the rest comes from his/her interaction with society—which is free. "...(and let's be real, in this specific topic we're really talking about megacorps with literally trillions of dollars in their coffers..." I agree, but this is a separate issue and I should have made a distinction between what one 'owes' society and what megacorps are leeching from society for free. Then there's the question of how much prior art one has learned (no one creates in a vacuum, one always builds on the works of others, so there's a philosophical argument about how much original content one has actually created). Look at it this way: megacorps are not only leeching information from society for free (through AI and other means) but also they're 'stealing' once-open stuff from the public domain and making it proprietary on the flimsiest of grounds through questionable patents and trivial copyright—all of which is legal. Most megacorps are public companies and thus are owned by shareholders who, in turn, are citizens in society. If hef19898 wants AI megacorps etc. to stop stealing his content then he will have to get cooperation from his fellow citizens—many of whom are shareholders in said companies. Fact is, in the great scheme of things the pecuniary interest of these shareholding citizens holds much greater sway in society than do the moral rights of hef19898 and his ilk. If this were not so then said megacorps wouldn't be able to 'rape' the defenseless as they have been doing for decades. As I've mentioned, hef19898 and ilk simply don't have the numbers to change things. It's obvious, there are no masses with placards blocking Pennsylvania Avenue or throngs protesting around the Capitol to bring the megacorps to heel. Until then hef19898 will just have to accept that his content will be stolen.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>You are now suggesting that you owe nothing back to society in return. how so? You sell a work, people buy it and are taxed. You make income and the govt. takes some of that income as tax for that very societal eductation they cultivate. trying to evade that is in fact punished, severely. What more do you owe society than a literal part of your wealth? From the govt's POV, giving away stuff for free is worse than selling it.