3 ms·

The problem with copyright is that it tries to apply property laws, which mattered because property is scarce, to things that are not scarce. If you have an id

by smeej 3y ago

The problem with copyright is that it tries to apply property laws, which mattered because property is scarce, to things that are not scarce. If you have an idea first and I copy the idea into my own mind, you still have your brain cell connections. You still have your idea. Now I do too, and you have no right to tell me how I can connect my brain cells just because you connected your own similarly before me. Same thing with computer data. You don't get to tell me I can't arrange bits on a hard drive I own in the same order as the bits on a computer you own just because you arranged them first. That's nonsensical.

andsoitis 3y ago
The problem with copyright is that it tries to apply property laws, which mattered because property is scarce, to things that are not scarce. If you have an idea first and I copy the idea into my own mind, you still have your brain cell connections. You still have your idea. Now I do too, and you have no right to tell me how I can connect my brain cells just because you connected your own similarly before me. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression or fixation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright
- superkuh 3y ago
  Historically, yes, pragmatically and in terms of current legal actions, copyright in the USA is almost all about protecting ideas regardless of the medium of their expression.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > copyright in the USA is almost all about protecting ideas Can you give an example where copyright is protecting an idea? I’d be curious to learn more.
- smeej 3y ago
  If I forget that you were the source of an idea and fail to cite you for it if I make any form of expression about it (paper, podcast, blog post) and fail to cite you, people pitch a fit, even if the idea wasn't all that big a breakthrough, or even if I actually didn't learn it from you, and just came up with it on my own from immersion in a similar milieu. No, I'm not technically restricted from having the same thought, but if I tell anyone about the thought, then it's apparently plagiarism.
  - hn_acker 3y ago
    Plagiarism and copyright infringement are distinct but not mutually exclusive. Both can happen unconsciously. Plagiarism means failing to explicitly indicate which author you copied which ideas/expression from. You can plagiarise regardless of whether the author gave you permission to copy. To my knowledge, the US doesn't have laws against plagiarism per se. (The US does have laws against academic dishonesty, fraud, and copyright infringement.) Copyright infringement means copying/modifying a rightsholder's copyrighted expression 1. without a license from the rightsholder or 2. in a way which violates a condition of the license you got from the rightsholder to copy/modify the expression. Both of those scenarios are subject to fair use in court, considering that the second scenario effectively is a case of the first scenario. A copyright license may require you to provide attribution in a specific manner; failing to comply would revoke your license permanently or until you comply (depending on what the license/rightsholders say).
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >and fail to cite you, people pitch a fit, even if the idea wasn't all that big a breakthrough depends on the idea and how you expressed it. No one is making you pay royalties to Newton every-time you calculate a revenue from a line graph. No one even cares if you talk about, say, Machine Learning on a podcast. But if you say you invented Machine Learning (somehow) you'll get more scrutiny cast on you unless you are in fact an authority in that domain. But sure, if we are talking about genuinely coming up with the same idea, there are cases where two thinkers independently came across the same idea as contemporaries. Part of copyright law takes that into account.
ozim 3y ago
Good books, good music, good movies are absolutely scarce. Idea about kid getting into wizarding school is probably not that unique and you still can write your own flavor of it there is no copyright on that. It still is that somehow Harry Potter story is single best one out there. The same with all the love songs you can make new one any time you want but it is not like everyone makes "Endless love" like Diana Ross with Lionel Richie.

by smeej 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

The problem with copyright is that it tries to apply property laws, which mattered because property is scarce, to things that are not scarce. If you have an idea first and I copy the idea into my own mind, you still have your brain cell connections. You still have your idea. Now I do too, and you have no right to tell me how I can connect my brain cells just because you connected your own similarly before me. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression or fixation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright

superkuh 3y ago
Historically, yes, pragmatically and in terms of current legal actions, copyright in the USA is almost all about protecting ideas regardless of the medium of their expression.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > copyright in the USA is almost all about protecting ideas Can you give an example where copyright is protecting an idea? I’d be curious to learn more.
smeej 3y ago
If I forget that you were the source of an idea and fail to cite you for it if I make any form of expression about it (paper, podcast, blog post) and fail to cite you, people pitch a fit, even if the idea wasn't all that big a breakthrough, or even if I actually didn't learn it from you, and just came up with it on my own from immersion in a similar milieu. No, I'm not technically restricted from having the same thought, but if I tell anyone about the thought, then it's apparently plagiarism.
- hn_acker 3y ago
  Plagiarism and copyright infringement are distinct but not mutually exclusive. Both can happen unconsciously. Plagiarism means failing to explicitly indicate which author you copied which ideas/expression from. You can plagiarise regardless of whether the author gave you permission to copy. To my knowledge, the US doesn't have laws against plagiarism per se. (The US does have laws against academic dishonesty, fraud, and copyright infringement.) Copyright infringement means copying/modifying a rightsholder's copyrighted expression 1. without a license from the rightsholder or 2. in a way which violates a condition of the license you got from the rightsholder to copy/modify the expression. Both of those scenarios are subject to fair use in court, considering that the second scenario effectively is a case of the first scenario. A copyright license may require you to provide attribution in a specific manner; failing to comply would revoke your license permanently or until you comply (depending on what the license/rightsholders say).
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >and fail to cite you, people pitch a fit, even if the idea wasn't all that big a breakthrough depends on the idea and how you expressed it. No one is making you pay royalties to Newton every-time you calculate a revenue from a line graph. No one even cares if you talk about, say, Machine Learning on a podcast. But if you say you invented Machine Learning (somehow) you'll get more scrutiny cast on you unless you are in fact an authority in that domain. But sure, if we are talking about genuinely coming up with the same idea, there are cases where two thinkers independently came across the same idea as contemporaries. Part of copyright law takes that into account.

ozim 3y ago

Good books, good music, good movies are absolutely scarce. Idea about kid getting into wizarding school is probably not that unique and you still can write your own flavor of it there is no copyright on that. It still is that somehow Harry Potter story is single best one out there. The same with all the love songs you can make new one any time you want but it is not like everyone makes "Endless love" like Diana Ross with Lionel Richie.