7 ms·

We were talking about the French power plants and they have a cooling problem as they were built with cooling by rivers. Yes you can build them differently, but

by _ph_ 3y ago

We were talking about the French power plants and they have a cooling problem as they were built with cooling by rivers. Yes you can build them differently, but they haven't. Actually you praised them for that. So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. And showing that you were wrong about this statement, my conclusion that you were lying about that fact is a factual statement not a personal attack. Of course, now you are trying to move the goal post. The problem stands: several French (and also some Swiss) reactors had to be throttled as they couldn't be cooled enough in the hot dry summers. At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed.

mpweiher 3y ago
> So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. Nope. I denied that this is in any way a problem of nuclear power, which is what you implied. It is not. Cooling is a problem of all thermal plants, and solved for all thermal plants by cooling towers. This isn't that hard. And where did I "praise them" for building power plants without cooling towers? You gotta stop making stuff up, really. > At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed. Reference for "killing fish". Or are you making things up again?
- _ph_ 3y ago
  You wrote: > And they also saved money by building some plants near rivers without cooling towers I consider this a positive vote. But fine. If you didn't agree with the decision, it doesn't make a difference to the discussion. And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. No where I implied that this is a fundamental problem to nuclear power. It is, however a problem of many current nuclear reactors. Never mention that of course cooling towers also require a lot of water that needs to be provide. Which might face the same problems as the river-based cooling. With respect to the fish: basic biology. The normal limit for water temperature is like 25 degrees which is quite a lot for european rivers. Fish are very sensitive to the water temperature as high temperature reduces the oxygene content of water. Which is why there are often mass death of fishes in the summer in some places quite naturally. You cannot raise the water temperature much or you will do huge harm to those ecological systems. That is, why those limits exist. Note: the plants probably are not happy about too high temperatures either, but they won't quickly die from lack of oxygene.
  - mpweiher 3y ago
    > I consider this a positive vote. So you massively interpret (and misinterpret) what I write and then, purely on the basis of your interpretation, accuse my of lying. Precious. You might want to look up what a "lie" is. > And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. And when I responded, I was specific about this not being a problem with nuclear reactors in general because we know how to build cooling towers. And yet you accuse me of lying. > With respect to the fish: basic biology. [...] OK, so you have nothing but generalities and platitudes, thanks for confirming.
    - _ph_ 3y ago
      Ok, when you are calling science "generalities and platitudes", you are making my point of your posts reading like right wing propaganda and also any more discussion is moot.
      - mpweiher 3y ago
        What you posted were generalities and platitudes. Yes, when water gets too hot, fish die. You need to be bit more specific than that. For example when the water we use to boil a fish (I prefer fried) is at a good 100ºC, that kills fish. I have some doubts that the nuclear power plants raised the temperatures of the rivers to 100ºC. To be relevant, you would have to have some precise figure as to what the official limits are, what the temperatures when fish (which types of fish?) actually start getting affected and how much, what temperatures the plants emit and how much those temperatures raise the temperature of the river. And of course, all you actually have is more slander and denouncements. As usual.

by _ph_ 3y ago

mpweiher 3y ago

> So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. Nope. I denied that this is in any way a problem of nuclear power, which is what you implied. It is not. Cooling is a problem of all thermal plants, and solved for all thermal plants by cooling towers. This isn't that hard. And where did I "praise them" for building power plants without cooling towers? You gotta stop making stuff up, really. > At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed. Reference for "killing fish". Or are you making things up again?

_ph_ 3y ago
You wrote: > And they also saved money by building some plants near rivers without cooling towers I consider this a positive vote. But fine. If you didn't agree with the decision, it doesn't make a difference to the discussion. And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. No where I implied that this is a fundamental problem to nuclear power. It is, however a problem of many current nuclear reactors. Never mention that of course cooling towers also require a lot of water that needs to be provide. Which might face the same problems as the river-based cooling. With respect to the fish: basic biology. The normal limit for water temperature is like 25 degrees which is quite a lot for european rivers. Fish are very sensitive to the water temperature as high temperature reduces the oxygene content of water. Which is why there are often mass death of fishes in the summer in some places quite naturally. You cannot raise the water temperature much or you will do huge harm to those ecological systems. That is, why those limits exist. Note: the plants probably are not happy about too high temperatures either, but they won't quickly die from lack of oxygene.
- mpweiher 3y ago
  > I consider this a positive vote. So you massively interpret (and misinterpret) what I write and then, purely on the basis of your interpretation, accuse my of lying. Precious. You might want to look up what a "lie" is. > And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. And when I responded, I was specific about this not being a problem with nuclear reactors in general because we know how to build cooling towers. And yet you accuse me of lying. > With respect to the fish: basic biology. [...] OK, so you have nothing but generalities and platitudes, thanks for confirming.
  - _ph_ 3y ago
    Ok, when you are calling science "generalities and platitudes", you are making my point of your posts reading like right wing propaganda and also any more discussion is moot.
    - mpweiher 3y ago
      What you posted were generalities and platitudes. Yes, when water gets too hot, fish die. You need to be bit more specific than that. For example when the water we use to boil a fish (I prefer fried) is at a good 100ºC, that kills fish. I have some doubts that the nuclear power plants raised the temperatures of the rivers to 100ºC. To be relevant, you would have to have some precise figure as to what the official limits are, what the temperatures when fish (which types of fish?) actually start getting affected and how much, what temperatures the plants emit and how much those temperatures raise the temperature of the river. And of course, all you actually have is more slander and denouncements. As usual.