3 ms·

Those are interesting indeed. I would have thought cryptocurrency farming might have made a blip on there somehow but seems not. I wonder how those charts comp

Those are interesting indeed. I would have thought cryptocurrency farming might have made a blip on there somehow but seems not. I wonder how those charts compare with the rest of the world?

jsiepkes 3y ago
I don't think you can draw those conclusions. For example without crypto you might have seen a decline due to more efficient products such as LED's.
- dgellow 3y ago
  I think by “blip” they meant it would be visible on the graph, not that it doesn’t have any impact
davedx 3y ago
No idea why you were downvoted. Crypto has had a significant impact on electricity demand, I'd be interested to see if it was visible too.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Because it's totally unsubstantiated, there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too. Obviously what people consume, the frequency etc will have to some what change, but there is no reason through innovation, incentives, education that we can't do it. I think the idea that this is "impossible" and the only way to get there is to go back to the stone ages is actually the reason why we're not there yet. Rather than spend time just improving things, we like to have a bitch about it.
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    > there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too. Unfortunately there is. See [1] and [2] for an introduction to the topic and [3] for the concept of ecological overshoot. It’s simply not possible to have infinite growth in a finite world. Humanity have first exceeded the annual carrying capacity of Earth in 1971, first year when Earth Overshoot Day happened. 1: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xr9rIQxwj4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xr9rIQxwj4 2: https://www.collapsemusings.com/overshoot-why-its-already-too-late-to-save-civilization/ https://www.collapsemusings.com/overshoot-why-its-already-to... 3: https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/media-backgrounder/ https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/media-backgr...
    - ChatGTP 3y ago
      I personally never mentioned infinite growth. Infinite growth is a sily idea and I doubt the majority of people really think this is a worthwhile / desirable thing to shoot for anyway goal anyway. I don't see why we can't have tech, sustainable travel (more rail, even intercontinental high speed trains), renewable energy industries and innovation, and more driving a sustainable economy?
      - Aerbil313 3y ago
        You're right, "We can't have infinite growth" meaning "We can't grow more sustainably/We should stop growth in order sustainable existence of human population" would make much more sense 50 years ago. We're far past sustainable thresholds at this point. > I don't see why we can't have tech ... The article I linked ("Overshoot: Why It's Already Too Late To Save Civilization") explains why we can't, there simply isn't enough resources on planet Earth now. If the humanity were to follow the platonic utopian ideal of strictly sustainable development of technology over past centuries, sure, why not? We could mine the asteroids and whatnot. There was enough resources and a sufficiently intact biosphere, atmosphere etc. to allow it. But the Earth-system at this point is simply fucked up beyond repair. Reread this last sentence. For a person who sees his purpose in this world and has hopes to achieve something in this world (read: most people in the West), this is the most depressing and hopeless thing he can ever think of, even more depressing than "I am mentally/physically fucked up beyond repair." I am a Muslim, so everything I do is ultimately oriented for my afterlife, and all deeds (and sins) of mine are recorded and will be carried with me to the day of Judgement, where I will face God's absolute justice and hopefully mercy for all what I did. This world is no longer than a blink of an eye relative to my eternal life. Thus I am not depressed by the situation the world is in. What matters is what I do here in my time. YMMV based on your faith/beliefs/lack of them. The article is a long but enlightening read, I even translated it to my native lang and published it even though I am no writer or translator.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
Crypto mining in the US consumes 1-1.5% of electricity [1]. This is very small to show on graphs like these ones. If there is a downward trend on electricity consumption it probably just dampens it slightly. Now, with EVs on the other hand, consumption will probably pick up a lot. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact-sheet-climate-and-energy-implications-of-crypto-assets-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20is%20estimated,mining%20is%20also%20highly%20mobile https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact....

Those are interesting indeed. I would have thought cryptocurrency farming might have made a blip on there somehow but seems not. I wonder how those charts compare with the rest of the world?

jsiepkes 3y ago

I don't think you can draw those conclusions. For example without crypto you might have seen a decline due to more efficient products such as LED's.

dgellow 3y ago
I think by “blip” they meant it would be visible on the graph, not that it doesn’t have any impact

davedx 3y ago

No idea why you were downvoted. Crypto has had a significant impact on electricity demand, I'd be interested to see if it was visible too.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChatGTP 3y ago
Because it's totally unsubstantiated, there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too. Obviously what people consume, the frequency etc will have to some what change, but there is no reason through innovation, incentives, education that we can't do it. I think the idea that this is "impossible" and the only way to get there is to go back to the stone ages is actually the reason why we're not there yet. Rather than spend time just improving things, we like to have a bitch about it.
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  > there is no law in the universe that says we can't have a much, much more sustainable and environmentally friendly economy and have consumption too. Unfortunately there is. See [1] and [2] for an introduction to the topic and [3] for the concept of ecological overshoot. It’s simply not possible to have infinite growth in a finite world. Humanity have first exceeded the annual carrying capacity of Earth in 1971, first year when Earth Overshoot Day happened. 1: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xr9rIQxwj4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-xr9rIQxwj4 2: https://www.collapsemusings.com/overshoot-why-its-already-too-late-to-save-civilization/ https://www.collapsemusings.com/overshoot-why-its-already-to... 3: https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/media-backgrounder/ https://overshoot.footprintnetwork.org/newsroom/media-backgr...
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    I personally never mentioned infinite growth. Infinite growth is a sily idea and I doubt the majority of people really think this is a worthwhile / desirable thing to shoot for anyway goal anyway. I don't see why we can't have tech, sustainable travel (more rail, even intercontinental high speed trains), renewable energy industries and innovation, and more driving a sustainable economy?
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      You're right, "We can't have infinite growth" meaning "We can't grow more sustainably/We should stop growth in order sustainable existence of human population" would make much more sense 50 years ago. We're far past sustainable thresholds at this point. > I don't see why we can't have tech ... The article I linked ("Overshoot: Why It's Already Too Late To Save Civilization") explains why we can't, there simply isn't enough resources on planet Earth now. If the humanity were to follow the platonic utopian ideal of strictly sustainable development of technology over past centuries, sure, why not? We could mine the asteroids and whatnot. There was enough resources and a sufficiently intact biosphere, atmosphere etc. to allow it. But the Earth-system at this point is simply fucked up beyond repair. Reread this last sentence. For a person who sees his purpose in this world and has hopes to achieve something in this world (read: most people in the West), this is the most depressing and hopeless thing he can ever think of, even more depressing than "I am mentally/physically fucked up beyond repair." I am a Muslim, so everything I do is ultimately oriented for my afterlife, and all deeds (and sins) of mine are recorded and will be carried with me to the day of Judgement, where I will face God's absolute justice and hopefully mercy for all what I did. This world is no longer than a blink of an eye relative to my eternal life. Thus I am not depressed by the situation the world is in. What matters is what I do here in my time. YMMV based on your faith/beliefs/lack of them. The article is a long but enlightening read, I even translated it to my native lang and published it even though I am no writer or translator.

mytailorisrich 3y ago

Crypto mining in the US consumes 1-1.5% of electricity [1]. This is very small to show on graphs like these ones. If there is a downward trend on electricity consumption it probably just dampens it slightly. Now, with EVs on the other hand, consumption will probably pick up a lot. [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact-sheet-climate-and-energy-implications-of-crypto-assets-in-the-united-states/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20is%20estimated,mining%20is%20also%20highly%20mobile https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact....