6 ms·

I don't intend this to be mean, but in some parts this reads as satire.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Yes, thought so as well. "Instead of a single search and replace we get to a flow state and create an automated script to do it for all our repositories. Due to flow state productivity grains are immense. Of course we will manually check 400 times if the script did correct work, but we enjoy that each time."
- hmeh 3y ago
  Usually, when you put quotes around something, it's considered proper to actually be quoting someone instead of trying your best to make them sound like a clown. But, why don't I go ahead and give you a real quote. Of our 400+ repos, 100 or so of them are deploy projects. The only time they need to change in batch is if one of our boilerplate scripts changes. This is infrequent, but when it does happen, we have a "project-scripts" repository that contains our boilerplate scripts as well as scripts to update them across all of our repositories. This doesn't always require individual verification, but when it does, it's typically a matter of installing dependencies and starting the application. Many text editors are capable of doing "single search and replace" across multiple repositories. All of our repos are in a single project directory, so we have a root, just like anyone with a monorepo does. Rarely does that "single search and replace" touch more than a small handful of projects. So, except in the extreme case, you are only running a fraction of the tests or verifications when you make one of these "search and replace" changes. Compare this to a monorepo, where, unless you have specialized tooling to slice your test suite while considering your package dependency tree, you end up needing to run all of your tests. If you are responsible and your project is in control, you run the tests on your laptop first, and then (typically) you push your commit and it runs in CI. Actually, more typically, you push your commit to a branch, open a pull request, have it run in CI, have it reviewed, then merge it, where it runs in CI again. Each time it ran in CI, it ran your entire test suite (usually). We don't do most of that. Most of what every team takes for granted, we just don't do. So, when someone imagines having to do their typical process for getting a change integrated 100 times, they are right to fear that. But, they are creating a false equivalence. We don't do that, because we've eliminated all of that waste from our process. What we do 100 times (again, the once or twice a month that we do it), it takes a fraction of the offort what most teams do once to get a single change in. There's a reason that Toyota ate the west's lunch when it comes to manufacturing. They understand just-in-time (one-piece flow) and small batch sizes. They know how to address problems at their root and systematically eliminate waste. Most in the software industry know how to do one thing: apply the thing the latest dev celebrity said in their latest tweet or blog post. Here's the difference between me and that celebrity: I'll tell you straight up not to do what we do. I'll tell you straight up it will take you years with guidance to get anywhere close to what we do. I'm just telling you it's possible and we don't actually need to live in software shanty towns our whole lives.
  - elktown 3y ago
    Someone got to say it so I will. Most of your comments comes across like you've gone off the rails and started replacing competency, not to mention humility, with narcissism. Being so cocksure and backing it up with statements that you need to be as brilliant as you to "understand" is such a laughingly large red flag that I'm not surprised people interpret it as satire. I really hope your colleagues are onboard with this and that this isn't your own dogmatic crusade dragging them along.
    - hmeh 3y ago
      > Someone got to say it so I will. Most of your comments comes across like you've gone of the rails and started replacing competency, not to mention humility, with narcissism. Being so cocksure and backing it up with statements that you need to be as brilliant as you to "understand" is such a laughingly large red flag that I'm not surprised people interpret it as satire. Where did I say that, exactly? I’ve said nothing about intellect. I’ve mentioned tacit knowledge multiple times, because I have enough experience to recognize how ludicrous a lot of this sounds. It sounded that way to me at first until I experienced it and saw the pieces fit together. That’s how tacit knowledge works, especially when it is counter to average knowledge. It’s the same reason American industry smashed Japanese cars in demonstration instead of listening to them when they said large batches were bad (I’m simplifying here somewhat) And which part, specifically sounds incompetent? I’m happy to discuss that. By the way, it's decidedly difficult to challenge a common belief, dare I say, orthodoxy, without sounding insane, confident, or even cocky. Could I be better at it? Of course, and I work at it, but I also am not here to make friends. I'm here to provide a perspective that I believe is sorely lacking from the development community and is drowned out by the orthodoxy, its acolytes, and its beneficiaries. > I really hope your colleagues are onboard with this and that this isn't your own dogmatic crusade dragging them along. Given their tenure on the team and their other options, it’s a pretty safe bet. It’s not my crusade, btw, it’s our teams goal to manage a relatively complex project with a relatively small team. Also, someone has to say it, so I will. You have now dropped this conversation, which was about the work, into ad hominem and straw man attacks. That’s one of the worst part about this industry: people’s inability to debate and discuss without attacking people or glorifying celebrities.
hmeh 3y ago
Well, there is Poe's law. You can call my views and our team's culture extreme. We believe it is extreme from a statistical perspective. There's a reason that our team has the tenure that it has. What we are doing isn't out there typically. But, I would challenge you to challenge anything that you saw as satire and try and wrap your head around how a sane, rational person could, with a straight face say "that's not a problem" and be absolutely right. Feel free to call something out specifically to me, and I will back it up. I'll warn you that you may still not agree with me, because much of what we do requires tacit knowledge to see the benefit of. And once you do, it's self-evident. A person must be studied in Lean and design principles and have seen the trajectory of several software projects over the course of many years. See if you can understand what are the actual problems in software. What causes projects to fail and teams to have to hire 100s of developers to maintain a semblance of the productivity they had for their first year or two of development. Try to record your setbacks in a daily work log (we all do this) and address root causes. Do this for 10-20 years and see where you end up.

Yes, thought so as well. "Instead of a single search and replace we get to a flow state and create an automated script to do it for all our repositories. Due to flow state productivity grains are immense. Of course we will manually check 400 times if the script did correct work, but we enjoy that each time."

hmeh 3y ago
Usually, when you put quotes around something, it's considered proper to actually be quoting someone instead of trying your best to make them sound like a clown. But, why don't I go ahead and give you a real quote. Of our 400+ repos, 100 or so of them are deploy projects. The only time they need to change in batch is if one of our boilerplate scripts changes. This is infrequent, but when it does happen, we have a "project-scripts" repository that contains our boilerplate scripts as well as scripts to update them across all of our repositories. This doesn't always require individual verification, but when it does, it's typically a matter of installing dependencies and starting the application. Many text editors are capable of doing "single search and replace" across multiple repositories. All of our repos are in a single project directory, so we have a root, just like anyone with a monorepo does. Rarely does that "single search and replace" touch more than a small handful of projects. So, except in the extreme case, you are only running a fraction of the tests or verifications when you make one of these "search and replace" changes. Compare this to a monorepo, where, unless you have specialized tooling to slice your test suite while considering your package dependency tree, you end up needing to run all of your tests. If you are responsible and your project is in control, you run the tests on your laptop first, and then (typically) you push your commit and it runs in CI. Actually, more typically, you push your commit to a branch, open a pull request, have it run in CI, have it reviewed, then merge it, where it runs in CI again. Each time it ran in CI, it ran your entire test suite (usually). We don't do most of that. Most of what every team takes for granted, we just don't do. So, when someone imagines having to do their typical process for getting a change integrated 100 times, they are right to fear that. But, they are creating a false equivalence. We don't do that, because we've eliminated all of that waste from our process. What we do 100 times (again, the once or twice a month that we do it), it takes a fraction of the offort what most teams do once to get a single change in. There's a reason that Toyota ate the west's lunch when it comes to manufacturing. They understand just-in-time (one-piece flow) and small batch sizes. They know how to address problems at their root and systematically eliminate waste. Most in the software industry know how to do one thing: apply the thing the latest dev celebrity said in their latest tweet or blog post. Here's the difference between me and that celebrity: I'll tell you straight up not to do what we do. I'll tell you straight up it will take you years with guidance to get anywhere close to what we do. I'm just telling you it's possible and we don't actually need to live in software shanty towns our whole lives.
- elktown 3y ago
  Someone got to say it so I will. Most of your comments comes across like you've gone off the rails and started replacing competency, not to mention humility, with narcissism. Being so cocksure and backing it up with statements that you need to be as brilliant as you to "understand" is such a laughingly large red flag that I'm not surprised people interpret it as satire. I really hope your colleagues are onboard with this and that this isn't your own dogmatic crusade dragging them along.
  - hmeh 3y ago
    > Someone got to say it so I will. Most of your comments comes across like you've gone of the rails and started replacing competency, not to mention humility, with narcissism. Being so cocksure and backing it up with statements that you need to be as brilliant as you to "understand" is such a laughingly large red flag that I'm not surprised people interpret it as satire. Where did I say that, exactly? I’ve said nothing about intellect. I’ve mentioned tacit knowledge multiple times, because I have enough experience to recognize how ludicrous a lot of this sounds. It sounded that way to me at first until I experienced it and saw the pieces fit together. That’s how tacit knowledge works, especially when it is counter to average knowledge. It’s the same reason American industry smashed Japanese cars in demonstration instead of listening to them when they said large batches were bad (I’m simplifying here somewhat) And which part, specifically sounds incompetent? I’m happy to discuss that. By the way, it's decidedly difficult to challenge a common belief, dare I say, orthodoxy, without sounding insane, confident, or even cocky. Could I be better at it? Of course, and I work at it, but I also am not here to make friends. I'm here to provide a perspective that I believe is sorely lacking from the development community and is drowned out by the orthodoxy, its acolytes, and its beneficiaries. > I really hope your colleagues are onboard with this and that this isn't your own dogmatic crusade dragging them along. Given their tenure on the team and their other options, it’s a pretty safe bet. It’s not my crusade, btw, it’s our teams goal to manage a relatively complex project with a relatively small team. Also, someone has to say it, so I will. You have now dropped this conversation, which was about the work, into ad hominem and straw man attacks. That’s one of the worst part about this industry: people’s inability to debate and discuss without attacking people or glorifying celebrities.

hmeh 3y ago

Well, there is Poe's law. You can call my views and our team's culture extreme. We believe it is extreme from a statistical perspective. There's a reason that our team has the tenure that it has. What we are doing isn't out there typically. But, I would challenge you to challenge anything that you saw as satire and try and wrap your head around how a sane, rational person could, with a straight face say "that's not a problem" and be absolutely right. Feel free to call something out specifically to me, and I will back it up. I'll warn you that you may still not agree with me, because much of what we do requires tacit knowledge to see the benefit of. And once you do, it's self-evident. A person must be studied in Lean and design principles and have seen the trajectory of several software projects over the course of many years. See if you can understand what are the actual problems in software. What causes projects to fail and teams to have to hire 100s of developers to maintain a semblance of the productivity they had for their first year or two of development. Try to record your setbacks in a daily work log (we all do this) and address root causes. Do this for 10-20 years and see where you end up.