4 ms·

This might come off weird but I can't help but comment on how markety/"I need to justify myself" your comment looked to me at first. You started off very norma

This might come off weird but I can't help but comment on how markety/"I need to justify myself" your comment looked to me at first. You started off very normal "I switched ... and i'm very happy with it." But then there's almost an entire paragraph of "yes it makes sense, yes I made the right decision, it's just like spending on other things, etc..", up until the very end where you come back to "give it a try if you are in a similar position". Not trying to offend or anything and happy that it works out well for you! Just struck me weird when I first read it.

throwaway81523 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification
jemmyw 3y ago
When you're spending money on a luxury item/service and there's a cheaper (in this case free) alternative, the it's hard to not write in this way. You are justifying it to yourself as much as anything. I also pay for Kagi. I'm not sure it is justified - it's not that cheap. They're pretty open about their costs though, and I think that demonstrates how much advertising is paying for other services. So I'm happy to pay for now just because I really dislike adverts.
- mattrick 3y ago
  I agree with this. The only real advantage to Kagi over just using Google + Adblock for me is an easy way to just completely block certain sites from ever appearing in searches. It's probably not worth $10 a month but I pay for it because SEO spam sites bother me on a personal level.
  - beej71 3y ago
    I don't know how true this is, but I really like the concept of a customer-driven search engine versus an ad-driven one. The incentives are better aligned, and it frees Kagi up to really try to kick ass at search instead of kicking ass at ad revenue. I'm enjoying the features they've been adding, and an looking forward to more. Besides, what else was I going to do with that YouTube Premium money? ;)
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  > luxury item/service The price for Kagi is not really in the class of "luxury" at $10 per month. It's peanuts really. In exchange you have the best search engine in the world. If you could upgrade an economy flight ticket to first class for $10, that would be a bargain. If you could buy the best bottle of wine in the world for just $10 more than your average bottle of wine, that would be a bargain. Kagi is the best search engine in the world, that's why I pay for it.
  - jemmyw 3y ago
    Luxury is a loaded term, I probably should have used something less vague. The examples you gave are still luxuries even if they're only $10 more than the basic version - the cheaper plane ticket still gets you there, the cheaper wine... I'm not really into wine, expensive wine doesn't taste especially different to me... still gets you drunk? Google still returns search results. You have to crawl through ads or search in different ways, but your result is still going to be in there. So if Kagi is a price and has extra comfort, it's a luxury.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      It's a luxury for knowledge workers, like having a chair to sit on is a luxury.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    These are not in the same realm. An extra $10 on a $500 or $1500 ticket that you ride maybe once a year is not the same as going from $0 to $10 every single month.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      It's $10 more per month for the best service of its kind in the world. On top of that a useful service that can save you time. What other services that are the best in the world can you get for $10 per month? If two restaurants were side by side, one handing out average meals for free and the other selling the best food in the world for $10, which one would you go to?
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  > When you're spending money on a luxury item/service and there's a cheaper (in this case free) alternative, the it's hard to not write in this way. You are justifying it to yourself as much as anything. That is a gross assumption about the GPs personality. I've bought luxury items before I'd happily publicly badmouth, and others that I'd happily publicly sing the praises of.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
chatmasta 3y ago
Every Kagi post is filled with comments like these and I've been wondering for a while whether it's organic or not. I'm inclined to think it's organic but the early adopters of Kagi are the type of people to write comments that sound like astroturfing, mostly as a manifestation of a sort of Stockholm Syndrome that emerges once they start paying for a service. Or to put it another way: I'd place more trust in a review from someone who received a lifetime of free Kagi access than I would in one from somebody who just started paying for it.
- dhc02 3y ago
  I've been paying for about a year. Every time I'm reminded how much I'm paying, I think it sounds like too much. But every time I sit at a new computer or accidentally use the default Google search on my phone's home screen, I think, "Crap, this is terrible. I'm glad I am paying for Kagi."
- viraptor 3y ago
  Or they just provide a really good service in the environment of ad-driven internet crap. I'm paying for it for the same reason as I pay for zerotier and give bcachefs donations - voting with my wallet for my environment to be a bit more like I wish it looked. And I'm happy to tell people about those things as long as they are better than alternatives.
- beej71 3y ago
  Thing is, though, it's free to try it for yourself and see if it's worth it to you. I don't know that astroturfing is necessary or useful.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  > mostly as a manifestation of a sort of Stockholm Syndrome that emerges once they start paying for a service I find this take quite odd. If you're paying for a service you're unhappy with, you stop. What's the element that's holding users in a "Stockholm Syndrome" scenario?

throwaway81523 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification

jemmyw 3y ago

When you're spending money on a luxury item/service and there's a cheaper (in this case free) alternative, the it's hard to not write in this way. You are justifying it to yourself as much as anything. I also pay for Kagi. I'm not sure it is justified - it's not that cheap. They're pretty open about their costs though, and I think that demonstrates how much advertising is paying for other services. So I'm happy to pay for now just because I really dislike adverts.

mattrick 3y ago
I agree with this. The only real advantage to Kagi over just using Google + Adblock for me is an easy way to just completely block certain sites from ever appearing in searches. It's probably not worth $10 a month but I pay for it because SEO spam sites bother me on a personal level.
- beej71 3y ago
  I don't know how true this is, but I really like the concept of a customer-driven search engine versus an ad-driven one. The incentives are better aligned, and it frees Kagi up to really try to kick ass at search instead of kicking ass at ad revenue. I'm enjoying the features they've been adding, and an looking forward to more. Besides, what else was I going to do with that YouTube Premium money? ;)
carlosjobim 3y ago
> luxury item/service The price for Kagi is not really in the class of "luxury" at $10 per month. It's peanuts really. In exchange you have the best search engine in the world. If you could upgrade an economy flight ticket to first class for $10, that would be a bargain. If you could buy the best bottle of wine in the world for just $10 more than your average bottle of wine, that would be a bargain. Kagi is the best search engine in the world, that's why I pay for it.
- jemmyw 3y ago
  Luxury is a loaded term, I probably should have used something less vague. The examples you gave are still luxuries even if they're only $10 more than the basic version - the cheaper plane ticket still gets you there, the cheaper wine... I'm not really into wine, expensive wine doesn't taste especially different to me... still gets you drunk? Google still returns search results. You have to crawl through ads or search in different ways, but your result is still going to be in there. So if Kagi is a price and has extra comfort, it's a luxury.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    It's a luxury for knowledge workers, like having a chair to sit on is a luxury.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  These are not in the same realm. An extra $10 on a $500 or $1500 ticket that you ride maybe once a year is not the same as going from $0 to $10 every single month.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    It's $10 more per month for the best service of its kind in the world. On top of that a useful service that can save you time. What other services that are the best in the world can you get for $10 per month? If two restaurants were side by side, one handing out average meals for free and the other selling the best food in the world for $10, which one would you go to?
averageRoyalty 3y ago
> When you're spending money on a luxury item/service and there's a cheaper (in this case free) alternative, the it's hard to not write in this way. You are justifying it to yourself as much as anything. That is a gross assumption about the GPs personality. I've bought luxury items before I'd happily publicly badmouth, and others that I'd happily publicly sing the praises of.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chatmasta 3y ago

Every Kagi post is filled with comments like these and I've been wondering for a while whether it's organic or not. I'm inclined to think it's organic but the early adopters of Kagi are the type of people to write comments that sound like astroturfing, mostly as a manifestation of a sort of Stockholm Syndrome that emerges once they start paying for a service. Or to put it another way: I'd place more trust in a review from someone who received a lifetime of free Kagi access than I would in one from somebody who just started paying for it.

dhc02 3y ago
I've been paying for about a year. Every time I'm reminded how much I'm paying, I think it sounds like too much. But every time I sit at a new computer or accidentally use the default Google search on my phone's home screen, I think, "Crap, this is terrible. I'm glad I am paying for Kagi."
viraptor 3y ago
Or they just provide a really good service in the environment of ad-driven internet crap. I'm paying for it for the same reason as I pay for zerotier and give bcachefs donations - voting with my wallet for my environment to be a bit more like I wish it looked. And I'm happy to tell people about those things as long as they are better than alternatives.
beej71 3y ago
Thing is, though, it's free to try it for yourself and see if it's worth it to you. I don't know that astroturfing is necessary or useful.
averageRoyalty 3y ago
> mostly as a manifestation of a sort of Stockholm Syndrome that emerges once they start paying for a service I find this take quite odd. If you're paying for a service you're unhappy with, you stop. What's the element that's holding users in a "Stockholm Syndrome" scenario?