4 ms·

It's really and very odd to sign in to use a search engine just so that the search engine can know every search about me. I'm really upset and just baffled abo

It's really and very odd to sign in to use a search engine just so that the search engine can know every search about me. I'm really upset and just baffled about this trend that this is going on the web especially for search engines. And Kagi isn't open source either.

xboxnolifes 3y ago
You're signing in so a paid service can know you paid for the service. Is there an alternative im unaware of?
- colesantiago 3y ago
  But they have a free plan? Why does that need me to sign in? It should just let me search, when I want to pay then I pay. I would like Kagi to do something like Mullvad does without knowing who I am so I don't need to fiddle around with emails or passwords.
  - jsnell 3y ago
    But you're not going to want to pay, are you? You'll just clear your cookies every time you hit the usage limit, and start fresh.
    - colesantiago 3y ago
      Of course I'll pay, but not with my identity attached. I pay for Mullvad, and would pay for Kagi but only if I can not have my identity attached to their service and not have any emails associated with them. Mullvad is doing it right.
      - jsnell 3y ago
        But the complaint I was responding to was about the free plan requiring signing in, not about the identity being attached to your account. A free plan just cannot work if anyone can mint new identities for free. You paying for Mullvad doesn't seem very relevant to that complaint. They have no free plan. They also require creating an account and signing in to use their service at all.
      - rhabarba 3y ago
        You can just use anything that looks like a mail address with Kagi.
  - soneca 3y ago
    The free plan is not because of a company’s mission to provide their service for free. It is solely a marketing tactic to get your contact in exchange for letting you experiment with their product without paying money. If they do not get your email they have a lower chance of turning you into a paying user, which is the sole purpose of the offer. Even taking into account that some potential customers, like you, will be pissed and never sign up to even the free plan, I am pretty sure the metrics support their decision to keep asking for the email.
loloquwowndueo 3y ago
This is answered in kagi’s faq. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/faq/faq.html#why-does-kagi-search-require-an-account https://help.kagi.com/kagi/faq/faq.html#why-does-kagi-search...
- colesantiago 3y ago
  This is about the 10th time I've seen this and it doesn't help me. There is nothing stopping Kagi from having a business model like what Mullvad does. Mullvad doesn't require emails, passwords or the like to operate and yet it is very privacy friendly. > Anonymous account > We don’t ask for any personal info – not even your email... https://mullvad.net/en/why-mullvad-vpn https://mullvad.net/en/why-mullvad-vpn
  - al_borland 3y ago
    I'm a happy Kagi user, but I'd be happy if they adopted a Mullvad like account model. I'd be happy if a lot of sites did this actually.
  - freediver 3y ago
    Kagi does not require your email (you can enter anything) and you can pay with bitcoin if you want total anonimity.
0xChain 3y ago
Agreed. At least with Brave Search premium you don't need an account for the paid session. I wish Kagi did the same. Instead, it's a "Trust me bro" that they aren't logging search queries.
- alphabettsy 3y ago
  Brave search premium asked me to enter my email. Seems like it requires an account. Regardless, there’s nothing to stop Mullvad, Brave, Kagi, or any other company from logging and doing attribution. Trust is part of the equation.
  - pythux 3y ago
    Hi, Brave engineer here, I'd like to mention that when you subscribe to Brave Search premium, it is completely decoupled from the searches you then make (no way for us to link your email to your searches) by relying on blinded tokens to prove that you are premium, but without the backend knowing which account (and using one new token per search in order to avoid being able to build search sessions). I hope that helps,
    - odysseus 3y ago
      Are you making any progress with Apple on getting Brave Search into Safari’s list of search providers?
lancesells 3y ago
I'm not sure why this is an issue. The product isn't for you and the strong majority of search engines are free and don't require an account.
- colesantiago 3y ago
  If you value privacy, you'll know why this is an issue.
  - sevg 3y ago
    Did you have to question the other person's values to make your point?

xboxnolifes 3y ago

You're signing in so a paid service can know you paid for the service. Is there an alternative im unaware of?

colesantiago 3y ago
But they have a free plan? Why does that need me to sign in? It should just let me search, when I want to pay then I pay. I would like Kagi to do something like Mullvad does without knowing who I am so I don't need to fiddle around with emails or passwords.
- jsnell 3y ago
  But you're not going to want to pay, are you? You'll just clear your cookies every time you hit the usage limit, and start fresh.
  - colesantiago 3y ago
    Of course I'll pay, but not with my identity attached. I pay for Mullvad, and would pay for Kagi but only if I can not have my identity attached to their service and not have any emails associated with them. Mullvad is doing it right.
    - jsnell 3y ago
      But the complaint I was responding to was about the free plan requiring signing in, not about the identity being attached to your account. A free plan just cannot work if anyone can mint new identities for free. You paying for Mullvad doesn't seem very relevant to that complaint. They have no free plan. They also require creating an account and signing in to use their service at all.
    - rhabarba 3y ago
      You can just use anything that looks like a mail address with Kagi.
- soneca 3y ago
  The free plan is not because of a company’s mission to provide their service for free. It is solely a marketing tactic to get your contact in exchange for letting you experiment with their product without paying money. If they do not get your email they have a lower chance of turning you into a paying user, which is the sole purpose of the offer. Even taking into account that some potential customers, like you, will be pissed and never sign up to even the free plan, I am pretty sure the metrics support their decision to keep asking for the email.

loloquwowndueo 3y ago

This is answered in kagi’s faq. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/faq/faq.html#why-does-kagi-search-require-an-account https://help.kagi.com/kagi/faq/faq.html#why-does-kagi-search...

colesantiago 3y ago
This is about the 10th time I've seen this and it doesn't help me. There is nothing stopping Kagi from having a business model like what Mullvad does. Mullvad doesn't require emails, passwords or the like to operate and yet it is very privacy friendly. > Anonymous account > We don’t ask for any personal info – not even your email... https://mullvad.net/en/why-mullvad-vpn https://mullvad.net/en/why-mullvad-vpn
- al_borland 3y ago
  I'm a happy Kagi user, but I'd be happy if they adopted a Mullvad like account model. I'd be happy if a lot of sites did this actually.
- freediver 3y ago
  Kagi does not require your email (you can enter anything) and you can pay with bitcoin if you want total anonimity.

0xChain 3y ago

Agreed. At least with Brave Search premium you don't need an account for the paid session. I wish Kagi did the same. Instead, it's a "Trust me bro" that they aren't logging search queries.

alphabettsy 3y ago
Brave search premium asked me to enter my email. Seems like it requires an account. Regardless, there’s nothing to stop Mullvad, Brave, Kagi, or any other company from logging and doing attribution. Trust is part of the equation.
- pythux 3y ago
  Hi, Brave engineer here, I'd like to mention that when you subscribe to Brave Search premium, it is completely decoupled from the searches you then make (no way for us to link your email to your searches) by relying on blinded tokens to prove that you are premium, but without the backend knowing which account (and using one new token per search in order to avoid being able to build search sessions). I hope that helps,
  - odysseus 3y ago
    Are you making any progress with Apple on getting Brave Search into Safari’s list of search providers?

lancesells 3y ago

I'm not sure why this is an issue. The product isn't for you and the strong majority of search engines are free and don't require an account.

colesantiago 3y ago
If you value privacy, you'll know why this is an issue.
- sevg 3y ago
  Did you have to question the other person's values to make your point?