5 ms·

From what I have seen, the "fact checkers" do not actually check facts. I'm familiar with Snopes and PolitiFact, two of those mentioned in the article, not fami

From what I have seen, the "fact checkers" do not actually check facts. I'm familiar with Snopes and PolitiFact, two of those mentioned in the article, not familar with Logically or the Australian Associated Press FactCheck, but Snopes and PolitiFact do not do fact checks. They do propaganda. Which is not always bad, but propaganda is not fact checking. They "fact check" satire web sites. They "fact check" an undeniably true statement with a "lacks context" label and respond with their own talking points. Which I think is unavoidable. I would find it hard to "fact check" a true statement from someone I disagreed with without providing additional information that I considered important. But at that point, it's not a fact check. I do not need Snopes to fact check the Babylon Bee article "California Considering a Tax on Breathing" for me. None of these fact checkers are doing fact checking. Fact checking is impossible. Facts lack context, and the decision as to what context is important is always going to be contested. It's going to be political.

082349872349872 3y ago
Unfortunately Poe's Law means that satire which is obvious to members of a subculture is not only unrecognisable as such to those "not in the know", but is even found to be held as serious opinion by yet others. As to the claim that "facts lack context", here are some low-context essential facts: 0 + 0 = 0 P & Q ⊆ P as well as some low-context accidental facts: fire burns, here and in persia all men are mortal the earth is spherical
- rufus_foreman 3y ago
  >> 0 + 0 = 0 If it was politically important, then yes, there would be a fact check that asserted that 0 + 0 = 0 lacks context.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    If I have understood TFA properly, whether or not the fact checks mentioned anything about context in the hypothetical politically important 0+0=0 case, they would at least all agree that this particular tautology is a fact? In politically important cases, should we ask for anything more? (can we ask for anything more?) I like Linebarger's theory on these cases: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~:text=The%20facts,into%20propaganda https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~... but maybe wartime propaganda is important enough that they strove to be factual; while modern journalism is just the cheapest way for publishers to fill necessary space between the ads? (I understand that those in the business have done studies, and know for each genre of publication exactly what the optimal ratio of article text to ad spots may be; publishers are not journalists, and if they could've retained an audience while running 0% content/100% ads they would already have done so)
- WaitWaitWha 3y ago
  > the earth is spherical Fact-check: This is incorrect. The earth is an oblate spheroid because the equatorial axis and the polar axis do not match in length. :D But, to your point I am hard pressed to find a satire or comedy sight that does not represent themselves as such, because the libel fear.

082349872349872 3y ago

Unfortunately Poe's Law means that satire which is obvious to members of a subculture is not only unrecognisable as such to those "not in the know", but is even found to be held as serious opinion by yet others. As to the claim that "facts lack context", here are some low-context essential facts: 0 + 0 = 0 P & Q ⊆ P as well as some low-context accidental facts: fire burns, here and in persia all men are mortal the earth is spherical

rufus_foreman 3y ago
>> 0 + 0 = 0 If it was politically important, then yes, there would be a fact check that asserted that 0 + 0 = 0 lacks context.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  If I have understood TFA properly, whether or not the fact checks mentioned anything about context in the hypothetical politically important 0+0=0 case, they would at least all agree that this particular tautology is a fact? In politically important cases, should we ask for anything more? (can we ask for anything more?) I like Linebarger's theory on these cases: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~:text=The%20facts,into%20propaganda https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#:~... but maybe wartime propaganda is important enough that they strove to be factual; while modern journalism is just the cheapest way for publishers to fill necessary space between the ads? (I understand that those in the business have done studies, and know for each genre of publication exactly what the optimal ratio of article text to ad spots may be; publishers are not journalists, and if they could've retained an audience while running 0% content/100% ads they would already have done so)
WaitWaitWha 3y ago
> the earth is spherical Fact-check: This is incorrect. The earth is an oblate spheroid because the equatorial axis and the polar axis do not match in length. :D But, to your point I am hard pressed to find a satire or comedy sight that does not represent themselves as such, because the libel fear.