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"I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock ou

"I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock out' job. It's also very difficult for many programmers that I've known over the years to step outside of the language that they started with, and start learning and heavily using something new." I'm not so sure. At one of my previous jobs I worked with a lot of people in their 50s and 60s who were used to assembly language, Jovial (it was an Air Force contract), and Fortran. They couldn't wait to transition to newer stuff because the old languages were so difficult. On the other hand they were all really smart, so maybe you're right.

chaostheory 15y ago
"They couldn't wait to transition to newer stuff because the old languages were so difficult." I think this is just yet another really poor excuse for not learning something new, which further reinforces my point. There's no reason that any of them couldn't learn something new right now and years before. It's not like the middle class can't afford a really powerful computer. They've been affordable ever since the late 80's. You don't even need a powerful computer to program and learn something new. Nor do people have to pay to get access to new languages, and other related dev tools. Plus even the OS is free now. All you need is motivation to make time for it. In their defense, this is a really hard habit to break and what makes it worse is that most people don't realize that they're addicted to one language. As for myself, I'm too addicted to the imperative paradigm even though I get my toes wet with functional from time to time since it's baked in with some of the stuff I use.
- jlarocco 15y ago
  Okay, maybe I didn't make it clear. The problem isn't that people weren't learning new stuff. Everybody knew the newer languages - how else would they know they wanted to use them? Unfortunately, not everybody can drop everything and re-implement a large system in a trendy new language.
  - chaostheory 15y ago
    > how else would they know they wanted to use them? By reading blog posts and articles about new 'hotness'. I often want to use something without having previously used it.
JPKab 15y ago
Good point, but here's the kicker: How many of these older folks couldn't wait to LEARN vs. USE the newer stuff? Too often, I've found that middle-aged programmers in gov't/defense jobs won't learn a language unless its a job requirement. In other words, they don't do any coding as a hobby at home. As other commenters have stated, they would have been able to have home PC's to code on at home since the 80's. If I didn't do home projects, all I would know would be Java. Hell, I had to teach myself Python at home just to be able to get my boss to allow me to use it for data stuff. Node.js and whatever fun, vibrant open source community is blowing up at the moment? Never if I didn't do it on my own time.

chaostheory 15y ago

"They couldn't wait to transition to newer stuff because the old languages were so difficult." I think this is just yet another really poor excuse for not learning something new, which further reinforces my point. There's no reason that any of them couldn't learn something new right now and years before. It's not like the middle class can't afford a really powerful computer. They've been affordable ever since the late 80's. You don't even need a powerful computer to program and learn something new. Nor do people have to pay to get access to new languages, and other related dev tools. Plus even the OS is free now. All you need is motivation to make time for it. In their defense, this is a really hard habit to break and what makes it worse is that most people don't realize that they're addicted to one language. As for myself, I'm too addicted to the imperative paradigm even though I get my toes wet with functional from time to time since it's baked in with some of the stuff I use.

jlarocco 15y ago
Okay, maybe I didn't make it clear. The problem isn't that people weren't learning new stuff. Everybody knew the newer languages - how else would they know they wanted to use them? Unfortunately, not everybody can drop everything and re-implement a large system in a trendy new language.
- chaostheory 15y ago
  > how else would they know they wanted to use them? By reading blog posts and articles about new 'hotness'. I often want to use something without having previously used it.

JPKab 15y ago

Good point, but here's the kicker: How many of these older folks couldn't wait to LEARN vs. USE the newer stuff? Too often, I've found that middle-aged programmers in gov't/defense jobs won't learn a language unless its a job requirement. In other words, they don't do any coding as a hobby at home. As other commenters have stated, they would have been able to have home PC's to code on at home since the 80's. If I didn't do home projects, all I would know would be Java. Hell, I had to teach myself Python at home just to be able to get my boss to allow me to use it for data stuff. Node.js and whatever fun, vibrant open source community is blowing up at the moment? Never if I didn't do it on my own time.