3 ms·

There are many open questions here. It is unclear that an LLM that has "seen" GPL code is a derived work of that code. Your brain can "see" GPL code without vio

There are many open questions here. It is unclear that an LLM that has "seen" GPL code is a derived work of that code. Your brain can "see" GPL code without violating the license, even when you later write different code. Redistributing the GPL licensed code that was seen earlier is what would be most obviously infringing.

krapp 3y ago
The legality of what humans can and cannot do relative to copyright and the infringement thereof does not apply to LLMs, because LLMs are not human beings. An LLM being trained on copyrighted material is not equivalent to a human being seeing or "being influenced by" copyrighted material, because LLMs are not human beings. And even if it could be proven that the methods by which LLMs operate and human brains operate were essentially the same - which as far as I know, it hasn't - there would be no reason to assume the rights and privileges granted to human beings must de facto apply to LLMs, because LLMs are not human beings.
- cjbprime 3y ago
  This was a lot of words to say that LLMs aren't human. I agree they aren't human. Why do you think that training on GPL code that the model does not redistribute is a violation of copyright law?
  - krapp 3y ago
    I don't think it's a violation of copyright law because the GPL, as far as I understand it, gives the humans training the model the right to do so, and as long as they don't redistribute it, I don't have a problem with it. Once that code starts getting distributed, as happens with Copilot, then I think it's a problem. I'm just pointing out (repetitiously, because arguments of the type "but humans do X" are made all the time with LLMs) that the fact that a human brain doesn't violate copyright when a human reads and studies copyrighted code isn't relevant either way.
    - cjbprime 3y ago
      I guess I don't agree that the analogy doesn't hold. You agree that the training isn't infringing, but you think my analogy is not the reason why. I think it is the reason why. Use without redistribution is not protected by copyright law; this covers uses by human readers without redistribution, and also use by computer programs without redistribution.

krapp 3y ago

The legality of what humans can and cannot do relative to copyright and the infringement thereof does not apply to LLMs, because LLMs are not human beings. An LLM being trained on copyrighted material is not equivalent to a human being seeing or "being influenced by" copyrighted material, because LLMs are not human beings. And even if it could be proven that the methods by which LLMs operate and human brains operate were essentially the same - which as far as I know, it hasn't - there would be no reason to assume the rights and privileges granted to human beings must de facto apply to LLMs, because LLMs are not human beings.

cjbprime 3y ago
This was a lot of words to say that LLMs aren't human. I agree they aren't human. Why do you think that training on GPL code that the model does not redistribute is a violation of copyright law?
- krapp 3y ago
  I don't think it's a violation of copyright law because the GPL, as far as I understand it, gives the humans training the model the right to do so, and as long as they don't redistribute it, I don't have a problem with it. Once that code starts getting distributed, as happens with Copilot, then I think it's a problem. I'm just pointing out (repetitiously, because arguments of the type "but humans do X" are made all the time with LLMs) that the fact that a human brain doesn't violate copyright when a human reads and studies copyrighted code isn't relevant either way.
  - cjbprime 3y ago
    I guess I don't agree that the analogy doesn't hold. You agree that the training isn't infringing, but you think my analogy is not the reason why. I think it is the reason why. Use without redistribution is not protected by copyright law; this covers uses by human readers without redistribution, and also use by computer programs without redistribution.