4 ms·

Capitalist is not the right opposite here; democratic or democratic-republic is. You can have a totalitarian capitalist system (in fact that's what I'd argue Ch

by feoren 3y ago

Capitalist is not the right opposite here; democratic or democratic-republic is. You can have a totalitarian capitalist system (in fact that's what I'd argue China roughly is). Totalitarian socialist systems are often called "communism", but of course ask 10 people what those words mean and you'll get 12 answers (and start a big argument). You can have democratic capitalist and democratic socialist systems and lots more in between (and argue all day about which last longer). No, under a democratic system, citizens are not assets. Whose assets would they be?

FredPret 3y ago
I agree with you but I wonder if totalitarian capitalism is something that can last more than a few years. Surely someone who has gotten rich won't want to tolerate the state's complete control and will find ways around it. I suspect it's not sustainable.
- morkalork 3y ago
  Isn't that pretty much what Russia is today? The elections are a sham and the government works hand in hand with the oligarchy to plunder the country. As for tolerating government interference, anyone that doesn't like it eventually finds themselves flying out a window.
- elteto 3y ago
  > I agree with you but I wonder if totalitarian capitalism is something that can last more than a few years. China is so far a counterpoint. And the terrifying thing is that this is not at all a settled question. If you throw enough technology at surveillance and social control, as the Chinese do, the state might be able to become an actual Big Brother state with pervasive control over the daily life of its citizens. The Chinese government is working _hard_ on this. The Chinese undoing will probably come from more mundane reasons, such as Xi becoming a dictator and the usual decline that comes from these types of governments. > Surely someone who has gotten rich won't want to tolerate the state's complete control and will find ways around it. I suspect it's not sustainable. Jack Ma...
  - FredPret 3y ago
    Good points. > Jack Ma I think once you have lots of people like this guy (and much less rich people than him) bribing and elbowing their way to special treatment, it might undermine the concept of a totalitarian state to the point where it loses it's credibility with the bulk of the population. Even the strongest government needs people to believe in their power for it all to work.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
They are assets of each other, some own others.

by feoren 3y ago

FredPret 3y ago

I agree with you but I wonder if totalitarian capitalism is something that can last more than a few years. Surely someone who has gotten rich won't want to tolerate the state's complete control and will find ways around it. I suspect it's not sustainable.

morkalork 3y ago
Isn't that pretty much what Russia is today? The elections are a sham and the government works hand in hand with the oligarchy to plunder the country. As for tolerating government interference, anyone that doesn't like it eventually finds themselves flying out a window.
elteto 3y ago
> I agree with you but I wonder if totalitarian capitalism is something that can last more than a few years. China is so far a counterpoint. And the terrifying thing is that this is not at all a settled question. If you throw enough technology at surveillance and social control, as the Chinese do, the state might be able to become an actual Big Brother state with pervasive control over the daily life of its citizens. The Chinese government is working _hard_ on this. The Chinese undoing will probably come from more mundane reasons, such as Xi becoming a dictator and the usual decline that comes from these types of governments. > Surely someone who has gotten rich won't want to tolerate the state's complete control and will find ways around it. I suspect it's not sustainable. Jack Ma...
- FredPret 3y ago
  Good points. > Jack Ma I think once you have lots of people like this guy (and much less rich people than him) bribing and elbowing their way to special treatment, it might undermine the concept of a totalitarian state to the point where it loses it's credibility with the bulk of the population. Even the strongest government needs people to believe in their power for it all to work.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

They are assets of each other, some own others.