3 ms·

I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock out

I strongly feel that this depends on whether the 40 year old likes programming for its own sake, or they feel that it's just part of a 'clock in' and 'clock out' job Your right. It is. Then again it's equally true of the 20 year old in my experience. Most people in their forties who are still cutting code have been through three or four "fashionable" languages and have done serious work in all of them. You'll be amazed a the number of fresh faced young folk I interview who just know Java. more open minded ... to things like longer hours Nah. It's just that folk in their forties have figured out that longer hours aren't more productive :-)

chaostheory 15y ago
"Most people in their forties who are still cutting code have been through three or four 'fashionable' languages" I'm not sure where you're located, but in my experience even in Silicon Valley this is very rare. Most of the older engineers are either all about C++ or Java. A few may tinker a little with a new language, but they rarely take a risk to do more serious work with them. Moreover, many of them just transition to managerial positions. This is even more pronounced in less progressive metros like the South Eastern US. I feel that one main reason I've been able (and will continue) to avoid this trap of comfort is because I'm a neophile.
- adrianhoward 15y ago
  I'm not sure where you're located, but in my experience even in Silicon Valley this is very rare. Most of the older engineers are either all about C++ or Java. My context: I'm UK based, but I know a fair number of US folk. I'm in my forties and most, but obviously not all, of my friends are 30-60. The point I was, somewhat poorly, trying to make is that in my experience it's equally common to find a single language focus with folk in their twenties. Most young developers I encounter only know one language to any level of competence. Lots of people seem to come out of university having used nothing else but Java. Lots of folk who've self-educated seem to only know one of PHP/Ruby/Python/Perl/whatever. People in their twenties seem just as resistant to learning stuff outside of their particular domain as folk in their forties and fifties. The mild advantage that older devs have is that they've seen languages come and go a few times. If you've got a Java developer in their forties or fifties now, then they were definitely using something else before 1996, and probably something else again ten years before that :-)
  - chaostheory 15y ago
    > The point I was, somewhat poorly, trying to make is that in my experience it's equally common to find a single language focus with folk in their twenties. I definitely agree with that. My point is that newer devs tend to know newer languages that are in vogue. Eventually the cycle repeats itself once these 20 somethings get older. I've already seen this happen to most programmers that I personally know with very few exceptions.
  - jiggy2011 15y ago
    This is very true (I'm UK based too). When I did my CS degree we were taught Java and that was all most people knew. A few also knew PHP because they were interested in webdev or Visual Basic/Pascal because that was what they had done at A Level. I don't think anyone on the course knew functional programming until we did a module in it. This was particularly pronounced when we were given an assignment to do where the tools to be used were not specified but it was to basically build a shopping cart system. Obviously the best tool to use would be either something like PHP or to use Java but with JSP etc. What the majority of the students produced was a AWT/Swing application to control the shopping cart and used the file writing classes (FileOutputWriter etc) to output HTML. Perhaps the difference though is that young developers would expect to be re-taught a bunch of different stuff when they started their first job.
    - adrianhoward 15y ago
      Back in the late 1980's my degree had us use: assembler, Pop11, Common Lisp, ML, Prolog, C, and Module2 over a three year course. Frankly I find it incomprehensible that any CS degree doesn't at least cover using declarative, functional and OO languages.... but it seems to be common.

chaostheory 15y ago

"Most people in their forties who are still cutting code have been through three or four 'fashionable' languages" I'm not sure where you're located, but in my experience even in Silicon Valley this is very rare. Most of the older engineers are either all about C++ or Java. A few may tinker a little with a new language, but they rarely take a risk to do more serious work with them. Moreover, many of them just transition to managerial positions. This is even more pronounced in less progressive metros like the South Eastern US. I feel that one main reason I've been able (and will continue) to avoid this trap of comfort is because I'm a neophile.

adrianhoward 15y ago
I'm not sure where you're located, but in my experience even in Silicon Valley this is very rare. Most of the older engineers are either all about C++ or Java. My context: I'm UK based, but I know a fair number of US folk. I'm in my forties and most, but obviously not all, of my friends are 30-60. The point I was, somewhat poorly, trying to make is that in my experience it's equally common to find a single language focus with folk in their twenties. Most young developers I encounter only know one language to any level of competence. Lots of people seem to come out of university having used nothing else but Java. Lots of folk who've self-educated seem to only know one of PHP/Ruby/Python/Perl/whatever. People in their twenties seem just as resistant to learning stuff outside of their particular domain as folk in their forties and fifties. The mild advantage that older devs have is that they've seen languages come and go a few times. If you've got a Java developer in their forties or fifties now, then they were definitely using something else before 1996, and probably something else again ten years before that :-)
- chaostheory 15y ago
  > The point I was, somewhat poorly, trying to make is that in my experience it's equally common to find a single language focus with folk in their twenties. I definitely agree with that. My point is that newer devs tend to know newer languages that are in vogue. Eventually the cycle repeats itself once these 20 somethings get older. I've already seen this happen to most programmers that I personally know with very few exceptions.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  This is very true (I'm UK based too). When I did my CS degree we were taught Java and that was all most people knew. A few also knew PHP because they were interested in webdev or Visual Basic/Pascal because that was what they had done at A Level. I don't think anyone on the course knew functional programming until we did a module in it. This was particularly pronounced when we were given an assignment to do where the tools to be used were not specified but it was to basically build a shopping cart system. Obviously the best tool to use would be either something like PHP or to use Java but with JSP etc. What the majority of the students produced was a AWT/Swing application to control the shopping cart and used the file writing classes (FileOutputWriter etc) to output HTML. Perhaps the difference though is that young developers would expect to be re-taught a bunch of different stuff when they started their first job.
  - adrianhoward 15y ago
    Back in the late 1980's my degree had us use: assembler, Pop11, Common Lisp, ML, Prolog, C, and Module2 over a three year course. Frankly I find it incomprehensible that any CS degree doesn't at least cover using declarative, functional and OO languages.... but it seems to be common.