2 ms·

Oh, I missed that one line in a rather busy post. If you claim that cooling is a non-issue, you are lying. Some had to reduce power and also the maximum allowed

by _ph_ 3y ago

Oh, I missed that one line in a rather busy post. If you claim that cooling is a non-issue, you are lying. Some had to reduce power and also the maximum allowed river temperatures had to be adjusted. (https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/energie-trockenheit-und-fehlende-energie-alternativen-frankreichs-atomkraftwerke-ueberhitzen-fluesse/28588994.html https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/energie-t...) I never called you a Nazi. Why misrepresent the facts? I only stated that your text reads like some right wing propaganda. Which it does. And not every right-wing person is a Nazi. And wrt. to Finland I was talking about Block 4 of Olkiluoto. Block 3 went online this year. And yes, it delivers a significant part of the grid in Finland, which already has caused issues. Because Block 3 had to be pulled of the net several times - which immediately removes a large fraction of the grid power in an instant. That is why they currently keep a nearby coal power plant in hot standby to ensure grid stability.

mpweiher 3y ago
> If you claim that cooling is a non-issue, you are lying. No I am not. And please stop it with the personal attacks. It is non-issue for nuclear. Because. We. Know. How. To. Build. Cooling. Towers. If you cheap out and don't build a cooling tower, heat can become an issue. If you build a car with an insufficient radiator, heat can also become an issue. This is not an issue with cars in general, this is an issue with having a radiator that is too small. Because we know how to build cars that have large enough radiators. And no, you did not write that what I wrote "reads like" right wing propaganda. You wrote that I was "repeating right wing propaganda". Ergo a right wing propagandist, ergo a nazi. Or someone who reads and listens to right wing propaganda and repeats it. Which is probably worse, because stupid and still a nazi. Wrt. Finland: they hadn't even decided what type of reactor to build for Block 4, and due to the "special operation" those plans are now being given new priority, but not urgency (not needed yet). And, if I read you correctly, you consider a power plant delivering lots of power a problem. Whatever. For a country that size, I personally also would have chosen a larger number of smaller reactors rather than one huge one. But that's their choice.
- _ph_ 3y ago
  We were talking about the French power plants and they have a cooling problem as they were built with cooling by rivers. Yes you can build them differently, but they haven't. Actually you praised them for that. So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. And showing that you were wrong about this statement, my conclusion that you were lying about that fact is a factual statement not a personal attack. Of course, now you are trying to move the goal post. The problem stands: several French (and also some Swiss) reactors had to be throttled as they couldn't be cooled enough in the hot dry summers. At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed.
  - mpweiher 3y ago
    > So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. Nope. I denied that this is in any way a problem of nuclear power, which is what you implied. It is not. Cooling is a problem of all thermal plants, and solved for all thermal plants by cooling towers. This isn't that hard. And where did I "praise them" for building power plants without cooling towers? You gotta stop making stuff up, really. > At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed. Reference for "killing fish". Or are you making things up again?
    - _ph_ 3y ago
      You wrote: > And they also saved money by building some plants near rivers without cooling towers I consider this a positive vote. But fine. If you didn't agree with the decision, it doesn't make a difference to the discussion. And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. No where I implied that this is a fundamental problem to nuclear power. It is, however a problem of many current nuclear reactors. Never mention that of course cooling towers also require a lot of water that needs to be provide. Which might face the same problems as the river-based cooling. With respect to the fish: basic biology. The normal limit for water temperature is like 25 degrees which is quite a lot for european rivers. Fish are very sensitive to the water temperature as high temperature reduces the oxygene content of water. Which is why there are often mass death of fishes in the summer in some places quite naturally. You cannot raise the water temperature much or you will do huge harm to those ecological systems. That is, why those limits exist. Note: the plants probably are not happy about too high temperatures either, but they won't quickly die from lack of oxygene.

by _ph_ 3y ago

mpweiher 3y ago

> If you claim that cooling is a non-issue, you are lying. No I am not. And please stop it with the personal attacks. It is non-issue for nuclear. Because. We. Know. How. To. Build. Cooling. Towers. If you cheap out and don't build a cooling tower, heat can become an issue. If you build a car with an insufficient radiator, heat can also become an issue. This is not an issue with cars in general, this is an issue with having a radiator that is too small. Because we know how to build cars that have large enough radiators. And no, you did not write that what I wrote "reads like" right wing propaganda. You wrote that I was "repeating right wing propaganda". Ergo a right wing propagandist, ergo a nazi. Or someone who reads and listens to right wing propaganda and repeats it. Which is probably worse, because stupid and still a nazi. Wrt. Finland: they hadn't even decided what type of reactor to build for Block 4, and due to the "special operation" those plans are now being given new priority, but not urgency (not needed yet). And, if I read you correctly, you consider a power plant delivering lots of power a problem. Whatever. For a country that size, I personally also would have chosen a larger number of smaller reactors rather than one huge one. But that's their choice.

_ph_ 3y ago
We were talking about the French power plants and they have a cooling problem as they were built with cooling by rivers. Yes you can build them differently, but they haven't. Actually you praised them for that. So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. And showing that you were wrong about this statement, my conclusion that you were lying about that fact is a factual statement not a personal attack. Of course, now you are trying to move the goal post. The problem stands: several French (and also some Swiss) reactors had to be throttled as they couldn't be cooled enough in the hot dry summers. At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed.
- mpweiher 3y ago
  > So now they have cooling problems. Which you denied. Nope. I denied that this is in any way a problem of nuclear power, which is what you implied. It is not. Cooling is a problem of all thermal plants, and solved for all thermal plants by cooling towers. This isn't that hard. And where did I "praise them" for building power plants without cooling towers? You gotta stop making stuff up, really. > At least not without raising river temperatures to a point where the fish get killed. Reference for "killing fish". Or are you making things up again?
  - _ph_ 3y ago
    You wrote: > And they also saved money by building some plants near rivers without cooling towers I consider this a positive vote. But fine. If you didn't agree with the decision, it doesn't make a difference to the discussion. And when I was speaking about cooling problems, it was specifically about the French reactors. No where I implied that this is a fundamental problem to nuclear power. It is, however a problem of many current nuclear reactors. Never mention that of course cooling towers also require a lot of water that needs to be provide. Which might face the same problems as the river-based cooling. With respect to the fish: basic biology. The normal limit for water temperature is like 25 degrees which is quite a lot for european rivers. Fish are very sensitive to the water temperature as high temperature reduces the oxygene content of water. Which is why there are often mass death of fishes in the summer in some places quite naturally. You cannot raise the water temperature much or you will do huge harm to those ecological systems. That is, why those limits exist. Note: the plants probably are not happy about too high temperatures either, but they won't quickly die from lack of oxygene.