4 ms·

> We hire noncitizens because we didn't find the right talent we need. (the right talent at the shit-level wage we want to pay) is more often than not the rest

> We hire noncitizens because we didn't find the right talent we need. (the right talent at the shit-level wage we want to pay) is more often than not the rest of that sentence.

alephnerd 3y ago
$200-300k base with 15% annual bonus and equity ($300k-750k when I was working at public companies. I can't speak to my portfolio company's equity practices) is not a shit wage. We needed people who understood stuff like XDP and worked on it for years. The talent pool for low level development, OS Dev, cybersecurity, networking, and some parts of ML is sparse in the US compared to Israel, Eastern Europe, China, and India.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  The problem is that instead of building a domestic talent pipeline for high demand skills we take the easy route and grab immigrants for it. So the talent pipeline never gets built, and then we continue to be dependent on immigration. This is obviously not your company's fault because they are not policy makers, but if companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" you would get it done. e.g. I am a software engineer that currently has a TC of around $200K, and none of the skills you need, but I could easily be trained and learn any of that for a 300-750K TC at the end.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" Companies would collapse and fail, unless the government gave a massive corporate stimulus package (probably 4-5x the size of PPE). > none of the skills you need, but I could easily be trained It would take at least 1-2 years. At that point, an Israeli or Indian startup has taken market share and won. Welcome to cybersecurity and networking.
    - fallingknife 3y ago
      I am unpersuaded as I have never heard of a company that collapsed and was replaced by foreign competition because they couldn't get enough H1Bs. But even if this is correct, the best that should get you is N visas for the next 2 years and then no more because you will have built the local talent pipeline you need by then.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        I replied to OP saying "only hire domestic" for every role. Even National Labs don't do that.
    - hasty_pudding 3y ago
      Nothing in tech takes that long to learn if you have someone with a decent background in the subject...
      - FredPret 3y ago
        False - many critical edge cases only come up once every couple of years. In my area (not cybersecurity) I’m still seeing very serious and brand-new-to-me problems come up even after many years.
        hasty_pudding 3y ago
        So even with your experience these are still occuring periodically. lol The solution for this is good testing and QA not fear mongering Americans into hiring immigrants.
        FredPret 3y ago
        It’ll be very good for you to stay in learning mode after your degree. On the other hand, if your attitude is that you now know your stuff and you’re done learning, that isn’t going to produce the best outcomes for you. > Testing and QA Business processes can’t take the place of experienced judgement.

> We hire noncitizens because we didn't find the right talent we need. (the right talent at the shit-level wage we want to pay) is more often than not the rest of that sentence.

alephnerd 3y ago

$200-300k base with 15% annual bonus and equity ($300k-750k when I was working at public companies. I can't speak to my portfolio company's equity practices) is not a shit wage. We needed people who understood stuff like XDP and worked on it for years. The talent pool for low level development, OS Dev, cybersecurity, networking, and some parts of ML is sparse in the US compared to Israel, Eastern Europe, China, and India.

fallingknife 3y ago
The problem is that instead of building a domestic talent pipeline for high demand skills we take the easy route and grab immigrants for it. So the talent pipeline never gets built, and then we continue to be dependent on immigration. This is obviously not your company's fault because they are not policy makers, but if companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" you would get it done. e.g. I am a software engineer that currently has a TC of around $200K, and none of the skills you need, but I could easily be trained and learn any of that for a 300-750K TC at the end.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > companies like yours were told "too bad, hire and train locally" Companies would collapse and fail, unless the government gave a massive corporate stimulus package (probably 4-5x the size of PPE). > none of the skills you need, but I could easily be trained It would take at least 1-2 years. At that point, an Israeli or Indian startup has taken market share and won. Welcome to cybersecurity and networking.
  - fallingknife 3y ago
    I am unpersuaded as I have never heard of a company that collapsed and was replaced by foreign competition because they couldn't get enough H1Bs. But even if this is correct, the best that should get you is N visas for the next 2 years and then no more because you will have built the local talent pipeline you need by then.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      I replied to OP saying "only hire domestic" for every role. Even National Labs don't do that.
  - hasty_pudding 3y ago
    Nothing in tech takes that long to learn if you have someone with a decent background in the subject...
    - FredPret 3y ago
      False - many critical edge cases only come up once every couple of years. In my area (not cybersecurity) I’m still seeing very serious and brand-new-to-me problems come up even after many years.
      - hasty_pudding 3y ago
        So even with your experience these are still occuring periodically. lol The solution for this is good testing and QA not fear mongering Americans into hiring immigrants.
        FredPret 3y ago
        It’ll be very good for you to stay in learning mode after your degree. On the other hand, if your attitude is that you now know your stuff and you’re done learning, that isn’t going to produce the best outcomes for you. > Testing and QA Business processes can’t take the place of experienced judgement.