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Watching friends work through the decades long journey of citizenship, going to prestigious undergrad institutions, getting PhDs, publishing in journals, teach

Watching friends work through the decades long journey of citizenship, going to prestigious undergrad institutions, getting PhDs, publishing in journals, teaching part-time while working full time in industry, all just to get the right to stay in the country they’ve lived since they were 18 is fucking depressing. I doubt I’d qualify for EB-1 [1]. I’d have qualified for EB-2 at 28 when I attained five years of work experience [2][3]. If I didn’t have a BS I’d need ten years experience. If I had spent the usual five years flailing about in a PhD instead of dropping out early, I’d have delayed “work experience” another three years. Now this hypothetical version of myself waits as short as two years (China-born) and as long as eleven years (India-born) to get an application considered. Meanwhile, they’re trying to maintain work authorization, either via the time-limited OPT or hopefully winning an H1-B which has its own highly competitive lottery. And when they finally get PR/citizenship, their (now quite old) parents have no hope of receiving PR/citizenship so they’ll probably be flying across oceans to care for them as they age. All of this for the mistake of being born in the wrong part of the word. Meanwhile, I’m some fuckup who happened to be born in the US who has never known struggle. It just all seems cosmically unfair. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-first-preference-eb-1 https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent... [2] https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-second-preference-eb-2 https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent... [3] aswell23 is correct that I would qualify for EB-2 based on my BS degree. I had misread the EB-2 requirements. The text originally read: “I’m still two years shy of the 10 year minimum years of experience for EB-2 [2]. So that leaves EB-3.” EDIT: clarify second paragraph with third-person pronouns. EDIT2: clarify based on apwell23’s comment EDIT3: further clarification based on apwell23’s second comment.

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apwell23 3y ago
> At 33 years old I’m still two years shy of the 10 year minimum for EB-2 [2] not sure what your link has to do with age requirement that you mention. eb2 has no age minimum. You also wrote bunch of other falsehoods like visa renewals requiring lottery, renewals don't count against yearly visa quota. Most of the stuff in your comment is not correct.
- danking00 3y ago
  I’d be delighted to be proven wrong but the ten year minimum experience comes from the second reference: > Letters from current or former employers documenting at least 10 years of full-time experience in your occupation EDIT: I see where you misunderstood. I emphasized the age to show how long someone would be waiting for a non-precarious situation. I’ll edit above. Apologies if I’m unclear, I mean getting the H1-B in the first place requires a lottery. People who graduate with US undergrad degrees can start on OPT or the like but must transition to something else when that’s exhausted. One friend just went through exactly this where she exhausted her OPT, lost work authorization, but missed three attempts at H1-B. What else is wrong?
  - apwell23 3y ago
    > Letters from current or former employers documenting at least 10 years of full-time experience in your occupation Thats if you are in the second row in the table above. i.e "Exceptional Ability". You don't need it if you have masters or bachelors + 5. > Meanwhile, they’re trying to maintain work authorization There is no 'meanwhile' , they are not in eb green card queues without going though the h1 lottery first. In no case are you going though h1b lottery and in green card queue concurrently.
    - danking00 3y ago
      Fair on the first point, I’ll adjust the text to clarify the need for a BS. On the second point, first claim, you can be in an EB-1 queue without an H1-B (e.g. OPT or TN [1]). On the second claim, I admit to not knowing someone who is in the queue and in the lottery but they’re on TN, preparing materials for an EB-1 and applying for an H1-B. My understanding was that they’d apply for both concurrently (due to the EB queue period), but I have no references to back me up. [1] If you were born in China and then immigrated to Canada, you’re still in the China queue for EB.
      - apwell23 3y ago
        Yes correct, Greencard is not tied to maintaining current employment or having a visa, its a separate process. I know ppl who came to USA for the first time on a greencard. I was addressing the word "meanwhile" in your comment, i guess it technically possible that someone gets their greencard applied while they are on OPT/vistor visa/some other visa ect and then go through the h1b lottery. just saw this. > What else is wrong? > And when they finally get PR/citizenship, their (now quite old) parents have no hope of receiving PR/citizenship Family based greencards have current wait time of ~11months start to finish.
BeetleB 3y ago
> Now this hypothetical version of myself waits as short as two years (China-born) and as long as eleven years (India-born) China and India are the outliers. For most people, pre-pandemic (and post financial meltdown), the wait was under 2 years - almost everyone I know got it in under 2 years (EB-2, MS or higher degree). If you weren't born in China/India, and had an "advanced degree" in a STEM field (i.e. MS or higher), the green card process was/is fairly smooth. The real bottleneck is the H1-B visa quota/lottery.
- danking00 3y ago
  I suppose majority is factually true, but I think it’s worth being specific that nearly three billion people are in that situation.
  - coredog64 3y ago
    How many of those 3B would qualify for an H-1B absent any caps? How many more STEM professionals could the US absorb at something close to current salaries?
    - danking00 3y ago
      For India alone, Wikipedia says ~8% or ~100 million have a BS. I was more focused on PR/citizenship in my post. I do not know what qualifies you for an H1-B. In the second point, I only have an imprecise opinion which is that I’d rather suffer some loss of quality of life personally if the median human experience is raised. Would you support kicking out someone who doesn’t qualify for an EB or H1-B (in practice, you’re kicking out non degree holders) for a foreign born person who does qualify? If not, it seems to me we are embracing a lottery of birth place. To be clear, I’d like to see substantially more freedom of movement even if it means reducing my quality of life.
- logicchains 3y ago
  >China and India are the outliers They're not outliers in the sense that a significant percent of the world's population come from those two countries, so disadvantaging them disadvantages a significant fraction of the world's population.
geodel 3y ago
> It just all seems cosmically unfair. Huh, it is unfair in the same sense that football, basketball or movie stars are living in mega mansions or penthouses and flying in private jets while millions in US struggle for basic needs in US. Most H1B coming from India are among top 1-2% of India's vast population and thats pretty fucking huge luck. Going through normal wait of immigration process, which no one forced them to undertake btw, is a kind of elitist thinking where any delay in fulfilling upper class want is an untold atrocity inflicted upon them.
- jjkeddo199 3y ago
  If you want to complain about pro athletes making too much compare to STEM, consider that the average aspiring pro ends up making less than minimum wage over the duration of their career. Only a tiny handful of about 250k high school football-playing seniors are able to find any at all job in their sport (if they even make it to college). Meanwhile, the roughly 100k yearly US CS grads have an unemployment rate of maybe 10%.

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apwell23 3y ago

> At 33 years old I’m still two years shy of the 10 year minimum for EB-2 [2] not sure what your link has to do with age requirement that you mention. eb2 has no age minimum. You also wrote bunch of other falsehoods like visa renewals requiring lottery, renewals don't count against yearly visa quota. Most of the stuff in your comment is not correct.

danking00 3y ago
I’d be delighted to be proven wrong but the ten year minimum experience comes from the second reference: > Letters from current or former employers documenting at least 10 years of full-time experience in your occupation EDIT: I see where you misunderstood. I emphasized the age to show how long someone would be waiting for a non-precarious situation. I’ll edit above. Apologies if I’m unclear, I mean getting the H1-B in the first place requires a lottery. People who graduate with US undergrad degrees can start on OPT or the like but must transition to something else when that’s exhausted. One friend just went through exactly this where she exhausted her OPT, lost work authorization, but missed three attempts at H1-B. What else is wrong?
- apwell23 3y ago
  > Letters from current or former employers documenting at least 10 years of full-time experience in your occupation Thats if you are in the second row in the table above. i.e "Exceptional Ability". You don't need it if you have masters or bachelors + 5. > Meanwhile, they’re trying to maintain work authorization There is no 'meanwhile' , they are not in eb green card queues without going though the h1 lottery first. In no case are you going though h1b lottery and in green card queue concurrently.
  - danking00 3y ago
    Fair on the first point, I’ll adjust the text to clarify the need for a BS. On the second point, first claim, you can be in an EB-1 queue without an H1-B (e.g. OPT or TN [1]). On the second claim, I admit to not knowing someone who is in the queue and in the lottery but they’re on TN, preparing materials for an EB-1 and applying for an H1-B. My understanding was that they’d apply for both concurrently (due to the EB queue period), but I have no references to back me up. [1] If you were born in China and then immigrated to Canada, you’re still in the China queue for EB.
    - apwell23 3y ago
      Yes correct, Greencard is not tied to maintaining current employment or having a visa, its a separate process. I know ppl who came to USA for the first time on a greencard. I was addressing the word "meanwhile" in your comment, i guess it technically possible that someone gets their greencard applied while they are on OPT/vistor visa/some other visa ect and then go through the h1b lottery. just saw this. > What else is wrong? > And when they finally get PR/citizenship, their (now quite old) parents have no hope of receiving PR/citizenship Family based greencards have current wait time of ~11months start to finish.

BeetleB 3y ago

> Now this hypothetical version of myself waits as short as two years (China-born) and as long as eleven years (India-born) China and India are the outliers. For most people, pre-pandemic (and post financial meltdown), the wait was under 2 years - almost everyone I know got it in under 2 years (EB-2, MS or higher degree). If you weren't born in China/India, and had an "advanced degree" in a STEM field (i.e. MS or higher), the green card process was/is fairly smooth. The real bottleneck is the H1-B visa quota/lottery.

danking00 3y ago
I suppose majority is factually true, but I think it’s worth being specific that nearly three billion people are in that situation.
- coredog64 3y ago
  How many of those 3B would qualify for an H-1B absent any caps? How many more STEM professionals could the US absorb at something close to current salaries?
  - danking00 3y ago
    For India alone, Wikipedia says ~8% or ~100 million have a BS. I was more focused on PR/citizenship in my post. I do not know what qualifies you for an H1-B. In the second point, I only have an imprecise opinion which is that I’d rather suffer some loss of quality of life personally if the median human experience is raised. Would you support kicking out someone who doesn’t qualify for an EB or H1-B (in practice, you’re kicking out non degree holders) for a foreign born person who does qualify? If not, it seems to me we are embracing a lottery of birth place. To be clear, I’d like to see substantially more freedom of movement even if it means reducing my quality of life.
logicchains 3y ago
>China and India are the outliers They're not outliers in the sense that a significant percent of the world's population come from those two countries, so disadvantaging them disadvantages a significant fraction of the world's population.

geodel 3y ago

> It just all seems cosmically unfair. Huh, it is unfair in the same sense that football, basketball or movie stars are living in mega mansions or penthouses and flying in private jets while millions in US struggle for basic needs in US. Most H1B coming from India are among top 1-2% of India's vast population and thats pretty fucking huge luck. Going through normal wait of immigration process, which no one forced them to undertake btw, is a kind of elitist thinking where any delay in fulfilling upper class want is an untold atrocity inflicted upon them.

jjkeddo199 3y ago
If you want to complain about pro athletes making too much compare to STEM, consider that the average aspiring pro ends up making less than minimum wage over the duration of their career. Only a tiny handful of about 250k high school football-playing seniors are able to find any at all job in their sport (if they even make it to college). Meanwhile, the roughly 100k yearly US CS grads have an unemployment rate of maybe 10%.