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I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary. The US is and always has b
by jmyeet 3y ago
I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary.
The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way?
Let's dispense of the common issues:
1. Tech layoffs. This is unrelated to immigration. This is de facto employer colusion to suppress wages. Notice how all the tech companies started doing layoffs at about the same time? The counterargument is "economic conditions". You may have a point with VC funding drying up due to rising interest rates but many of the biggest companies are massively profitable. Profits tend to fall so they want to suppress costs to maintain profits. That's it.
I will say that layoffs should basically prohibit you from applying for more work visas for a period. For example: if you've laid off anyone in the last year, sorry you can't sponsor a work visa. You can escape this by, say, paying severance of at least a year's total compensation. The point is to remove the economic incentive of suppressing wages from the layoff-then-rehire cycle.
2. Lowering wages. Restricted immigration actually lowers wages. Why? Because it allows employs to pay undocumented workers less. Poultry farms are an excellent example of this. They pay undocuemnted workers less. If they ever start making noise about wages or conditions, you clear them out by calling in an ICE raid, pay a nominal fine, rinse and repeat.
How do we know this? Because when states actually go after employers rather than the workers, it's an economic disaster [1].
Also, we used to have a temporary worker program for seasonal and agricultural workers called the Bracero program. This filled an economic need. Eliminating it created more undocumented residents because crossing the border became too difficult and expensive.
3. A rising tide lifts all boats. There's mountains of evidence for this (eg [1]). Unions increase non-union wages. If we didn't have wage suppression by forced undocumented workers it would raise wages for everyone.
Immigrants aren't "stealing your jobs" or "lowering your wages". There's a long history of trying to blame immigrants instead of (correctly) blaming the concerted effort by capital owners to lower your wages.
[1]: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/alabamas-immigration-disaster/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/alabamas-immigratio...
[2]: https://www.workrisenetwork.org/working-knowledge/unions-raise-pay-nonunion-workers https://www.workrisenetwork.org/working-knowledge/unions-rai...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pvg 3y agoI'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary. Threads change pretty fast and prefixing your comment with that kind of goady meta makes it strictly worse and less effective at advancing your arguments.
- r3d0c 3y ago[flagged]
- dudul 3y ago> The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way? Just because we needed and encouraged immigration 200 years ago doesn't mean we have a duty to never adjust policies based on current needs and realities. What was necessary in 1900 may not be desirable anymore. Surprisingly that's a fact that people usually have no problem applying to the 2nd ammendment, but is a big no no when it comes to immigration. Edit to quote the specific part of the message I am reacting to.
- bee_rider 3y agoPretty much every advanced economy is seeing stagnant population growth. Integrating immigrants is one of our most important skills and we need to keep practicing it.