5 ms·

People in tech have blinders are. We're already in tech, so we don't see the repercussions. Entry level jobs are almost non-existent, they're all going overse

People in tech have blinders are. We're already in tech, so we don't see the repercussions. Entry level jobs are almost non-existent, they're all going overseas and to indentured servants.

Clubber 3y ago
This is just a repeat of what started in the 90s (probably earlier). It's really a scheme for companies to get access to more talent to drive wages down.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  News flash. The demand has started to slow down. 20 years ago, the Chinese backlog used to be in the decades range. Now it's 2 years. The Indian backlog used to be multi-decade too, but is now 11. Already, we've had engineers at portfolio companies decide to return to India to either earn a dollar salary or start their own startup. At this point, we've decided to straight up outsource jobs to India, Israel, and Eastern Europe. The talent base we need doesn't exist in the US. These guys could have become taxing paying members of American society. Now they'll make contributions to India, Eastern Europe, and Israel instead
  - coredog64 3y ago
    > Now they'll make contributions to India, Eastern Europe Good! There’s a billion people in India and plenty of opportunities for growth. The net benefit for all of humanity is larger if they stay there. Put another way, is it really all that great that the US drains the top talent out of India and Eastern Europe?
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      It does when those people who leave have a chip on their shoulder due to bad experiences with the US. For example, the founder of Zoho (Sridhar Vembu - I actually lived in the same apartment complex in the Bay Area that he started Zoho at) has become a NatSec cabinet advisor to Narendra Modi's administration, and has a chip on his shoulder about his experience dealing with US immigration. It was a big reason he returned to India. Wang Huning, the Chairman of the Chinese Politburo and Xi Jinping's right hand man - soured on the US after his experience dealing with the US as a student. A good friend of mine from college in the ML space who's parents are pretty high up in the ruling party of a major SEA state has been constantly complaining to me and them about how they lost 2 chances at the F1 to H1B conversion, and every single time became more and more ambivalent about the US. They can end up returning to SEA and make a large company, but they will also have a chip on their shoulder about the US. Another good friend of mine was an Indian national who specialized in EE and Condensed Matter Physics (semiconductors type work) - even did grad school in it at a Stanford type program. He left the US to work for a major Chinese company in SEA because immigration in the US was horrid. Plenty of Israelis feel the same way now about the US due to similar experiences. The US Immigration system exudes a sense of American exceptionalism because voters say "Love it or leave it". But the people who leave end up becoming successful, but still angry at how much effort and stress was expended for naught. China is now a near peer in 2023. There's no reason to fuel anti-Americanism in India, SEA, LatAm, etc and push them to the other side.
      - jimbob45 3y ago
        https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati... China and India combined take in less than a tenth of the immigrants the US takes in yearly. There's really no reason anyone should take their opinions on immigration seriously.
        alephnerd 3y ago
        I think you missed the entire point of my post above. The US's biggest strength is it's soft power at the elite level. Because of bad experiences like immigration, the US has been losing influence as foreign decision makers soured on the US due to crap treatment.
        Clubber 3y ago
        >Because of bad experiences like immigration, the US has been losing influence as foreign decision makers soured on the US due to crap treatment. So what?
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Well, the elite in formerly pro-American countries like Thailand, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brazil start turning to competitors like China or Russia, or deciding to go it on their own. Countries like India or Vietnam only began starting to warm to the US because of the diaspora. If the diaspora gets treated like shit, anti-Americanism begins to breed. A similar thing happened in China in the 2010s.
        selimthegrim 3y ago
        I see you omitted Pak from this list. Was it an exclusive list?
        alephnerd 3y ago
stackskipton 3y ago
>Entry level jobs are almost non-existent, they're all going overseas and to indentured servants. Which is now having impact on hiring higher level positions because we broke the pipeline of Jr. -> Mid Level -> Sr.
mkii 3y ago
> indentured servants Could you explain what you mean?
- tempaccount420 3y ago
  Probably means H1B workers. Hopefully not, because that's a pretty ugly way to call them.

People in tech have blinders are. We're already in tech, so we don't see the repercussions. Entry level jobs are almost non-existent, they're all going overseas and to indentured servants.

Clubber 3y ago

This is just a repeat of what started in the 90s (probably earlier). It's really a scheme for companies to get access to more talent to drive wages down.

alephnerd 3y ago
News flash. The demand has started to slow down. 20 years ago, the Chinese backlog used to be in the decades range. Now it's 2 years. The Indian backlog used to be multi-decade too, but is now 11. Already, we've had engineers at portfolio companies decide to return to India to either earn a dollar salary or start their own startup. At this point, we've decided to straight up outsource jobs to India, Israel, and Eastern Europe. The talent base we need doesn't exist in the US. These guys could have become taxing paying members of American society. Now they'll make contributions to India, Eastern Europe, and Israel instead
- coredog64 3y ago
  > Now they'll make contributions to India, Eastern Europe Good! There’s a billion people in India and plenty of opportunities for growth. The net benefit for all of humanity is larger if they stay there. Put another way, is it really all that great that the US drains the top talent out of India and Eastern Europe?
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    It does when those people who leave have a chip on their shoulder due to bad experiences with the US. For example, the founder of Zoho (Sridhar Vembu - I actually lived in the same apartment complex in the Bay Area that he started Zoho at) has become a NatSec cabinet advisor to Narendra Modi's administration, and has a chip on his shoulder about his experience dealing with US immigration. It was a big reason he returned to India. Wang Huning, the Chairman of the Chinese Politburo and Xi Jinping's right hand man - soured on the US after his experience dealing with the US as a student. A good friend of mine from college in the ML space who's parents are pretty high up in the ruling party of a major SEA state has been constantly complaining to me and them about how they lost 2 chances at the F1 to H1B conversion, and every single time became more and more ambivalent about the US. They can end up returning to SEA and make a large company, but they will also have a chip on their shoulder about the US. Another good friend of mine was an Indian national who specialized in EE and Condensed Matter Physics (semiconductors type work) - even did grad school in it at a Stanford type program. He left the US to work for a major Chinese company in SEA because immigration in the US was horrid. Plenty of Israelis feel the same way now about the US due to similar experiences. The US Immigration system exudes a sense of American exceptionalism because voters say "Love it or leave it". But the people who leave end up becoming successful, but still angry at how much effort and stress was expended for naught. China is now a near peer in 2023. There's no reason to fuel anti-Americanism in India, SEA, LatAm, etc and push them to the other side.
    - jimbob45 3y ago
      https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati... China and India combined take in less than a tenth of the immigrants the US takes in yearly. There's really no reason anyone should take their opinions on immigration seriously.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        I think you missed the entire point of my post above. The US's biggest strength is it's soft power at the elite level. Because of bad experiences like immigration, the US has been losing influence as foreign decision makers soured on the US due to crap treatment.
        Clubber 3y ago
        >Because of bad experiences like immigration, the US has been losing influence as foreign decision makers soured on the US due to crap treatment. So what?
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Well, the elite in formerly pro-American countries like Thailand, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brazil start turning to competitors like China or Russia, or deciding to go it on their own. Countries like India or Vietnam only began starting to warm to the US because of the diaspora. If the diaspora gets treated like shit, anti-Americanism begins to breed. A similar thing happened in China in the 2010s.
        selimthegrim 3y ago
        I see you omitted Pak from this list. Was it an exclusive list?
        alephnerd 3y ago

stackskipton 3y ago

>Entry level jobs are almost non-existent, they're all going overseas and to indentured servants. Which is now having impact on hiring higher level positions because we broke the pipeline of Jr. -> Mid Level -> Sr.

mkii 3y ago

> indentured servants Could you explain what you mean?

tempaccount420 3y ago
Probably means H1B workers. Hopefully not, because that's a pretty ugly way to call them.