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> For Russia, China or other SCO Nations it doesn't matter what kind of fake information they spread. As long as it keeps us busy, it worked. One thing that ha

by sph 3y ago

> For Russia, China or other SCO Nations it doesn't matter what kind of fake information they spread. As long as it keeps us busy, it worked. One thing that has bugged me for so long, and no one seems to be talking about, is, for example, how many state actors are lurking on Reddit news, specifically /r/worldnews, to control the narrative. There are some topics where a great number of comments are from, let's say, "interested parties". That is, people whose comment history is strictly about that particular topic. They might have 5+ year old accounts, and have only commented about that topic. They don't even need to hide it, as both them and the vast majority of well-meaning ignorant passerby can shut you down with either being a conspiracy theorist or pushing an agenda for the opposite side. This is the first time I mention this anywhere on the Internet, and I know how well it's gonna go down. Everybody is aware of state-sponsored troll farms, but any mention of it is drowned down by people that still believe either this is fiction, or "does not happen in my corner of the internet." To avoid making myself a blatant target of such responses, I will not mention which state or group is most active on that subreddit, go see for yourself. What I can openly say, is that USA psyops is not really a thing because most of the Western Internet is US-based, and US-centered. The US government doesn't really need massive troll farms because their own citizens and companies indirectly and involuntarily do their work for them. When one's own propaganda has become part of popular culture, is it propaganda anymore?

paganel 3y ago
> specifically /r/worldnews, By this point places like /worldnews have become ineffective when it comes to propaganda purposes, especially because they're so obviously controlled by bots. They're so good they're bad, that's one of the paradoxes of open confrontation/(information) war.
- sph 3y ago
  Being controlled by bots doesn't mean no human person ever reads any of those subs. Bots are where people are. If no one read /r/worldnews, there would be no bots.
  - paganel 3y ago
    It needs to be read by people at least a step or two above those bots, people that actually effect political change when push come to shove. That type of people has long left /worldnews and related propaganda platforms. Of course, the same applies to most of the Western media, i.e. it has pushed the propaganda angle way, way too much hence nobody that counts takes it seriously anymore.
postsantum 3y ago
r/worldnews is my go-to example when I need to show people what "dead internet" will look like > The US government doesn't really need massive troll farms https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit...
Klonoar 3y ago
This is not an undiscussed issue. You see more than enough people on Reddit discuss it to where it’s a small meme now. The bigger problem is that Reddit themselves don’t acknowledge the issue enough.
- sph 3y ago
  The Internet is so large now that what might appear as a small meme to you might never reach any of my circles. And in any case, I don't frequent Reddit as much as I used to.
cookiengineer 3y ago
The personal issue I have with all those countries involved in psyops is that the try to force their own opinion upon others, and by definition of how we structured our planet that should have been the work of diplomats. Nations are not willing to find common ground anymore because of this, because their own people "forgot" their own values and are radicalized into useful fools for the leaders that are usually just unsatisfiably power hungry. I fear that the high level of education of those nations (including Russia's which had many great authors and philosophers, for example) are lost in these cultural purges. And that's what I cannot understand and won't tolerate. We need to keep history alive and the knowledge that was created out of it, because we won't be able to learn from our mistakes otherwise. But educated people are not easy to control, that's why right-wing populism only works on the uneducated which are slowly assimilating the neighboring population on the psychogram. All the countries "in the middle" which didn't want to be involved in the West vs East debate have turned much more to communism; but not out of cultural values but more because of opportunism. And that likely will result in them being responsible for killing their own people soon enough, and that's what I would define as collateral damage that could have been prevented. Communism, by definition, has to eliminate rogue elements because it's not designed for compromise. All direct-elected parties in history at one point or the other used their power to eliminate other parties to guarantee their rule for generations to come. In an ideal world, something like territorial disputes would be a tournament on an isolated island in the middle of the ocean; where the civilian population isn't affected, infrastructure isn't damaged, and the ground isn't poisoned with chemicals, gunpowder, metals, and plagues. The German state is still busy clearing more than 20 unexploded bombs per day, every day, more than 80 years after WW2. The most damage wars cause is not for the current generation, but for the generations to come that have to clean up the mess of their old, idiotic grandpas that were too stubborn and too blinded to find a compromise with their neighbors. I hope at some point we (as the human species) realize that the male gender is a little too unreflected, too proud, and too stubborn in social contexts, and that's what's bad for politics. (This comment is likely being downvoted to hell, because I'm not patriotic enough. But honestly at this point I don't care anymore about the opinion of radicalized idiots online anymore. Idiots by definition are the radicals, and the smart ones act with kindness and understanding.)
- 3y ago

by sph 3y ago

paganel 3y ago

> specifically /r/worldnews, By this point places like /worldnews have become ineffective when it comes to propaganda purposes, especially because they're so obviously controlled by bots. They're so good they're bad, that's one of the paradoxes of open confrontation/(information) war.

sph 3y ago
Being controlled by bots doesn't mean no human person ever reads any of those subs. Bots are where people are. If no one read /r/worldnews, there would be no bots.
- paganel 3y ago
  It needs to be read by people at least a step or two above those bots, people that actually effect political change when push come to shove. That type of people has long left /worldnews and related propaganda platforms. Of course, the same applies to most of the Western media, i.e. it has pushed the propaganda angle way, way too much hence nobody that counts takes it seriously anymore.

postsantum 3y ago

r/worldnews is my go-to example when I need to show people what "dead internet" will look like > The US government doesn't really need massive troll farms https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit...

Klonoar 3y ago

This is not an undiscussed issue. You see more than enough people on Reddit discuss it to where it’s a small meme now. The bigger problem is that Reddit themselves don’t acknowledge the issue enough.

sph 3y ago
The Internet is so large now that what might appear as a small meme to you might never reach any of my circles. And in any case, I don't frequent Reddit as much as I used to.

cookiengineer 3y ago

The personal issue I have with all those countries involved in psyops is that the try to force their own opinion upon others, and by definition of how we structured our planet that should have been the work of diplomats. Nations are not willing to find common ground anymore because of this, because their own people "forgot" their own values and are radicalized into useful fools for the leaders that are usually just unsatisfiably power hungry. I fear that the high level of education of those nations (including Russia's which had many great authors and philosophers, for example) are lost in these cultural purges. And that's what I cannot understand and won't tolerate. We need to keep history alive and the knowledge that was created out of it, because we won't be able to learn from our mistakes otherwise. But educated people are not easy to control, that's why right-wing populism only works on the uneducated which are slowly assimilating the neighboring population on the psychogram. All the countries "in the middle" which didn't want to be involved in the West vs East debate have turned much more to communism; but not out of cultural values but more because of opportunism. And that likely will result in them being responsible for killing their own people soon enough, and that's what I would define as collateral damage that could have been prevented. Communism, by definition, has to eliminate rogue elements because it's not designed for compromise. All direct-elected parties in history at one point or the other used their power to eliminate other parties to guarantee their rule for generations to come. In an ideal world, something like territorial disputes would be a tournament on an isolated island in the middle of the ocean; where the civilian population isn't affected, infrastructure isn't damaged, and the ground isn't poisoned with chemicals, gunpowder, metals, and plagues. The German state is still busy clearing more than 20 unexploded bombs per day, every day, more than 80 years after WW2. The most damage wars cause is not for the current generation, but for the generations to come that have to clean up the mess of their old, idiotic grandpas that were too stubborn and too blinded to find a compromise with their neighbors. I hope at some point we (as the human species) realize that the male gender is a little too unreflected, too proud, and too stubborn in social contexts, and that's what's bad for politics. (This comment is likely being downvoted to hell, because I'm not patriotic enough. But honestly at this point I don't care anymore about the opinion of radicalized idiots online anymore. Idiots by definition are the radicals, and the smart ones act with kindness and understanding.)

3y ago