6 ms·

The real problem is that a lot of this “fake information” is a fact. For example, the USA foreign policy always leads to wars and war crimes and handful of corp

by nbzso 3y ago

The real problem is that a lot of this “fake information” is a fact. For example, the USA foreign policy always leads to wars and war crimes and handful of corporations are the beneficiary on a global scale. Maybe if you as Americans realize that your Constitutional rights are under attack, and there is no right or left in the political spectrum (just crooks and lobbyists), the world will have a chance to follow your example. Who knows? The bigger issue is that "commie under your bed" techniques never died. Americans are the victim of mind control more than Russians. Russia is corrupt, but they lack the sophistication and resources to apply effective propaganda. Even Ukrainians kicked their but in information warfare. And please, don't put me on some "Russian propaganda" troll theory. Go listen to Judge Napolitano podcast, with real American patriots like Colonel Douglas Macgregor, Prof. Jeffrey Sachs, Ray McGovern, Phil Giraldi, Larry Johnson, Tony Shafer, Prof. John J. Mearsheimer, Max Blumenthal.

imiric 3y ago
> Russia is corrupt, but they lack the sophistication and resources to apply effective propaganda. The interesting thing about information warfare is that it doesn't require sophistication and much resources at all. Set up a bunch of troll farms, pay tech-savvy teenagers to do your dirty work, give them some vague talking points, and let them loose on social media. If you really want to scale this cheaply, deploy AI instead. Russia might not have those capabilities yet, but China certainly does. BTW, I'm not picking sides here. Just pointing out that it would be absurd to think Russia or China aren't engaging in this type of warfare. They would actually prefer it, given that they can't compete with traditional physical might.
- nbzso 3y ago
  I have a side. The truth. The most links in this rabbit hole point to the operations of the USA agencies as a whole. Russia has crumbled in the 90s and now is just starting to wake up. If I have to measure threat and I am an American, I would ask: How on earth China has developed this enormous economical advantage over all of the world? Who financed this growth? Who benefited the most? And why, after living through the Cold War, we are heading in a similar direction?
  - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
    The russian troll factories are pretty well documented by now [2,3,4,5,6]. You seem to deliberately downplay this. Their boss even famously got killed this year [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency 2: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/14/europe/russia-yevgeny-prigozhin-internet-research-agency-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/14/europe/russia-yevgeny-pri... 3: https://www.severreal.org/a/priznannyy-smi-inoagentom-zhurnalist-bi-bi-si-andrey-zaharov-uehal-iz-rossii/31627984.html https://www.severreal.org/a/priznannyy-smi-inoagentom-zhurna... 4: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-... 5: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/world/europe/russia-troll-factory.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/world/europe/russia-troll... 6: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/some-russians-see-u-s-investigation-into-russian-election-meddling-as-a-soap-ope https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...
    - nbzso 3y ago
      These are your sources? And please, the leader in information technology and psychology warfare is known to the whole world. Practically all the listed sources are part of the complex of disinformation. On the grand scale of things, the troll farms of Russians are a joke. USA has more than 900 official military bases outside the territory of the country. Can you imagine the logistics? The agents? The infrastructure supporting this global operation? The budgets?
      - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
        > These are your sources? Indeed. > And please, the leader in information technology and psychology warfare is known to the whole world. I am not arguing against USA doing psyops. I am simply stating that Russia is, too. You keep downplaying it. > On the grand scale of things, the troll farms of Russians are a joke. I disagree. See the linked sources as to why. > Can you imagine the logistics? How is that relevant here?
- cpursley 3y ago
  > Russia might not have those capabilities yet Apparently Russia does (as well as a pretty developed sense of humor and awareness): https://rumble.com/v43fa28-project-grandpa-on-a-leash-biden-gets-russian-software-update.html https://rumble.com/v43fa28-project-grandpa-on-a-leash-biden-...
cookiengineer 3y ago
[dead]
astrange 3y ago
Trying to list Mearsheimer in a list of smart people is going to fail you since people can just look him up and see him being wrong about everything he's ever said. (He's a "realist", which is an international theory that treats countries as being rational with no domestic divisions, except for the US which is irrational because of liberalism. Also, he doesn't speak Russian, which doesn't stop him claiming to know what they think.) Max Blumenthal is literally a Russian agent and professional genocide denier. Those are just anti-US campists.
- hackandthink 3y ago
  Mearsheimer has a great track record: "John Mearsheimer is one who foresaw the very real possibility of a war against Ukraine. I think he is quite wrong about NATO as the provocation, but if you are grading him on predictions alone obviously he wins some serious kudos." Mearsheimer is my go to expert for international relations. He is a scientist where many people are pundits and propagandists. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/05/how-did-the-ir-community-get-russia-ukraine-so-wrong.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/05/ho...
  - astrange 3y ago
    I hesitate to accept Tyler Cowen as a source for anything. He's similarly a type of public intellectual where everyone else goes "well he's wrong about this but he's very smart" and then you count that up and realize he's never actually right about anything. (And he runs an economics blog where all the commenters are anti-immigration racists, about the most economically senseless thing you can be.) An example of other people right there would be a war on Ukraine was US intelligence, which is why we started that deterrence strategy where Biden gave speeches saying what Russia was about to do the week before they did it. It does not include Mearsheimer getting all the details wrong, making up an excuse about NATO even Putin doesn't believe, and predicting Russia would instantly win or else that resisting would lead to nuclear war. For other highlights, Mearsheimer thinks Japan didn't want to invade China in 1937 and Chiang Kai-Shek provoked them! Realism is just victim blaming. https://x.com/grxsb250/status/1740542486010122596 https://x.com/grxsb250/status/1740542486010122596 …also, sounds like his books are sponsored by Putin now via Valdai. https://x.com/jkleinschmidtir/status/1731773670207455316 https://x.com/jkleinschmidtir/status/1731773670207455316
concinds 3y ago
Macgregor and Mearsheimer are bullshitters, and Russia absolutely doesn't lack the sophistication to be effective at propaganda. Unfortunately their top leaders (and China's to a lesser extent) are also the victims of some of our own propaganda, and some fringe LaRouche propaganda too. Sarcasmitron has a great video series on YouTube about it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcfqP0PtWDcGKIHGTTbVlpTyUZNL8gjnH https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcfqP0PtWDcGKIHGTTbVl...

by nbzso 3y ago

imiric 3y ago

> Russia is corrupt, but they lack the sophistication and resources to apply effective propaganda. The interesting thing about information warfare is that it doesn't require sophistication and much resources at all. Set up a bunch of troll farms, pay tech-savvy teenagers to do your dirty work, give them some vague talking points, and let them loose on social media. If you really want to scale this cheaply, deploy AI instead. Russia might not have those capabilities yet, but China certainly does. BTW, I'm not picking sides here. Just pointing out that it would be absurd to think Russia or China aren't engaging in this type of warfare. They would actually prefer it, given that they can't compete with traditional physical might.

nbzso 3y ago
I have a side. The truth. The most links in this rabbit hole point to the operations of the USA agencies as a whole. Russia has crumbled in the 90s and now is just starting to wake up. If I have to measure threat and I am an American, I would ask: How on earth China has developed this enormous economical advantage over all of the world? Who financed this growth? Who benefited the most? And why, after living through the Cold War, we are heading in a similar direction?
- shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
  The russian troll factories are pretty well documented by now [2,3,4,5,6]. You seem to deliberately downplay this. Their boss even famously got killed this year [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency 2: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/14/europe/russia-yevgeny-prigozhin-internet-research-agency-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/14/europe/russia-yevgeny-pri... 3: https://www.severreal.org/a/priznannyy-smi-inoagentom-zhurnalist-bi-bi-si-andrey-zaharov-uehal-iz-rossii/31627984.html https://www.severreal.org/a/priznannyy-smi-inoagentom-zhurna... 4: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-... 5: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/world/europe/russia-troll-factory.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/world/europe/russia-troll... 6: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/some-russians-see-u-s-investigation-into-russian-election-meddling-as-a-soap-ope https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...
  - nbzso 3y ago
    These are your sources? And please, the leader in information technology and psychology warfare is known to the whole world. Practically all the listed sources are part of the complex of disinformation. On the grand scale of things, the troll farms of Russians are a joke. USA has more than 900 official military bases outside the territory of the country. Can you imagine the logistics? The agents? The infrastructure supporting this global operation? The budgets?
    - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
      > These are your sources? Indeed. > And please, the leader in information technology and psychology warfare is known to the whole world. I am not arguing against USA doing psyops. I am simply stating that Russia is, too. You keep downplaying it. > On the grand scale of things, the troll farms of Russians are a joke. I disagree. See the linked sources as to why. > Can you imagine the logistics? How is that relevant here?
cpursley 3y ago
> Russia might not have those capabilities yet Apparently Russia does (as well as a pretty developed sense of humor and awareness): https://rumble.com/v43fa28-project-grandpa-on-a-leash-biden-gets-russian-software-update.html https://rumble.com/v43fa28-project-grandpa-on-a-leash-biden-...

cookiengineer 3y ago

[dead]

astrange 3y ago

Trying to list Mearsheimer in a list of smart people is going to fail you since people can just look him up and see him being wrong about everything he's ever said. (He's a "realist", which is an international theory that treats countries as being rational with no domestic divisions, except for the US which is irrational because of liberalism. Also, he doesn't speak Russian, which doesn't stop him claiming to know what they think.) Max Blumenthal is literally a Russian agent and professional genocide denier. Those are just anti-US campists.

hackandthink 3y ago
Mearsheimer has a great track record: "John Mearsheimer is one who foresaw the very real possibility of a war against Ukraine. I think he is quite wrong about NATO as the provocation, but if you are grading him on predictions alone obviously he wins some serious kudos." Mearsheimer is my go to expert for international relations. He is a scientist where many people are pundits and propagandists. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/05/how-did-the-ir-community-get-russia-ukraine-so-wrong.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2022/05/ho...
- astrange 3y ago
  I hesitate to accept Tyler Cowen as a source for anything. He's similarly a type of public intellectual where everyone else goes "well he's wrong about this but he's very smart" and then you count that up and realize he's never actually right about anything. (And he runs an economics blog where all the commenters are anti-immigration racists, about the most economically senseless thing you can be.) An example of other people right there would be a war on Ukraine was US intelligence, which is why we started that deterrence strategy where Biden gave speeches saying what Russia was about to do the week before they did it. It does not include Mearsheimer getting all the details wrong, making up an excuse about NATO even Putin doesn't believe, and predicting Russia would instantly win or else that resisting would lead to nuclear war. For other highlights, Mearsheimer thinks Japan didn't want to invade China in 1937 and Chiang Kai-Shek provoked them! Realism is just victim blaming. https://x.com/grxsb250/status/1740542486010122596 https://x.com/grxsb250/status/1740542486010122596 …also, sounds like his books are sponsored by Putin now via Valdai. https://x.com/jkleinschmidtir/status/1731773670207455316 https://x.com/jkleinschmidtir/status/1731773670207455316

concinds 3y ago

Macgregor and Mearsheimer are bullshitters, and Russia absolutely doesn't lack the sophistication to be effective at propaganda. Unfortunately their top leaders (and China's to a lesser extent) are also the victims of some of our own propaganda, and some fringe LaRouche propaganda too. Sarcasmitron has a great video series on YouTube about it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcfqP0PtWDcGKIHGTTbVlpTyUZNL8gjnH https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcfqP0PtWDcGKIHGTTbVl...