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I attended 30C3 and was fascinated by his talk "Seeing The Secret State: Six Landscapes".. Although there is some interesting thoughts on psychological warfare

I attended 30C3 and was fascinated by his talk "Seeing The Secret State: Six Landscapes".. Although there is some interesting thoughts on psychological warfare in this latest presentation, I wish it was longer and a bit more in depth. If anyone has recommendations for further viewing/reading, please share. https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282300_-_seeing_the_secret_state_six_landscapes_-_trevor_paglen https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5604_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312282...

thirtyclowns 3y ago
He did a good interview (though with some overlap) for Novara Media: https://novaramedia.com/2023/08/17/novara-fm-the-art-of-the-psyop-trevor-paglen/ https://novaramedia.com/2023/08/17/novara-fm-the-art-of-the-...
caskstrength 3y ago
> If anyone has recommendations for further viewing/reading, please share. For further _reading_ would be especially appreciated. I don't have the patience to watch bunch of ~hour long videos for something that could likely be better described in an article that I could read in 5-15 minutes.
- gadders 3y ago
  LIkewise. I was trying to find a transcript but no luck.
  - renonce 3y ago
    Download the audio and upload it to any transcription service. OpenAI has a whisper API but there are a lot of alternatives, including running insanely-fast-whisper by yourself or using one of the lots of transcription APIs out there.
  - nebula8804 3y ago
    Maybe transcripts will come later, this video was recorded yesterday at an event that is still ongoing.
    - trwllm 3y ago
      Whisper models can do flawless transcripts in real time. They can run locally on a laptop without proprietary software. Not having them in a tech talk is inexcusable today.
      - pabs3 3y ago
        Aren't the Whisper models are proprietary pre-trained blobs?
        jazzyjackson 3y ago
        I guess in that they don't offer a reproducible toolchain they are proprietary blobs, but it is functional software with an open license (Apache) I do think its noteworthy that the time between something becoming available as a python import and the time it takes to integrate into production tools is apparently > 1 year.
        pabs3 3y ago
        The license is kind of irrelevant because its ML stuff that is impossible to retrain from the source data, because what that source data is, is a trade secret and even if it were publicly known, probably not under a FOSS license. The Debian Deep Learning Team's Machine Learning policy calls this sort of thing a "Toxic Candy" project. https://salsa.debian.org/deeplearning-team/ml-policy/ https://salsa.debian.org/deeplearning-team/ml-policy/ Of course people rarely need to retrain from scratch, but with some of the attacks on ML systems out there, that is an essential thing to be able to do if you can afford or crowdfund it.
        trwllm 3y ago
        Saying that ml models aren't open source because you don't have the data is like saying doom isn't open source because you didn't provide a proof the fast inverse square root works: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root LLMs are just very large magic numbers. That's all there is to them.
- 6510 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Indirect_suggestions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Indirect_su...
- z3ncyberpunk 3y ago
  damn, you sound like a robot. sad
jasonvorhe 3y ago
Mindwar by Michael Aquino goes pretty deep, but this entire topic is a bottomless pit and once you start researching him and his associates, there's no going back. This is your chance to still enjoy the steak.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  A red pill?
- mvdwoord 3y ago
  What isn't a bottomless pit? haha, anyway, thanks for the recommendation, grabbing a copy. I totally get that feeling but fortunately I seem to be able to enjoy my steak nonetheless. I have been dipping into this ever since I got my first fast internet connection back at uni in the 90s and came across Operation Gladio. Back then there wasn't too much drivel and interesting investigative journalism was quite readily available, if you knew where to look. I think the trick in enjoying your steak is mostly in enjoying it regardless of how fucked some things are. Also, not overcooking it, and invite people over to share ;)
  - markus_zhang 3y ago
    I’m in the same ship. I’m a serious conspiracy researcher (self titled) who only looks at verified sources. A decade ago I read about Propaganda Due and Operation Gladio and got fascinated. I did read a couple of books about the topic but I suspect the depth lays in some document cache somewhere in a national archive. I do believe EU countries hold some material. I was also interested in the Bloomfield archive but didn’t get the chance to dip further. These topics are also semi sensitive, I’m afraid, and might expose people like us to unnecessary dangers.
    - latentcall 3y ago
      Interesting. Didn’t know about Gladio, really cool read on Wiki. Bloomfield comes up with nothing, but I imagine I’m not looking for the right thing. :)
eth0up 3y ago
I thought Six Landscapes was absolutely brilliant, and hilarious in a twisted way. This guy is a fierce voice on the bedlam intercom.
samstave 3y ago
[flagged]
CTDOCodebases 3y ago
This was one of my favourite talks from CCC. I didn’t realise until the end when I finally looked at the video that it was the same guy.

thirtyclowns 3y ago

He did a good interview (though with some overlap) for Novara Media: https://novaramedia.com/2023/08/17/novara-fm-the-art-of-the-psyop-trevor-paglen/ https://novaramedia.com/2023/08/17/novara-fm-the-art-of-the-...

caskstrength 3y ago

> If anyone has recommendations for further viewing/reading, please share. For further _reading_ would be especially appreciated. I don't have the patience to watch bunch of ~hour long videos for something that could likely be better described in an article that I could read in 5-15 minutes.

gadders 3y ago
LIkewise. I was trying to find a transcript but no luck.
- renonce 3y ago
  Download the audio and upload it to any transcription service. OpenAI has a whisper API but there are a lot of alternatives, including running insanely-fast-whisper by yourself or using one of the lots of transcription APIs out there.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  Maybe transcripts will come later, this video was recorded yesterday at an event that is still ongoing.
  - trwllm 3y ago
    Whisper models can do flawless transcripts in real time. They can run locally on a laptop without proprietary software. Not having them in a tech talk is inexcusable today.
    - pabs3 3y ago
      Aren't the Whisper models are proprietary pre-trained blobs?
      - jazzyjackson 3y ago
        I guess in that they don't offer a reproducible toolchain they are proprietary blobs, but it is functional software with an open license (Apache) I do think its noteworthy that the time between something becoming available as a python import and the time it takes to integrate into production tools is apparently > 1 year.
        pabs3 3y ago
        The license is kind of irrelevant because its ML stuff that is impossible to retrain from the source data, because what that source data is, is a trade secret and even if it were publicly known, probably not under a FOSS license. The Debian Deep Learning Team's Machine Learning policy calls this sort of thing a "Toxic Candy" project. https://salsa.debian.org/deeplearning-team/ml-policy/ https://salsa.debian.org/deeplearning-team/ml-policy/ Of course people rarely need to retrain from scratch, but with some of the attacks on ML systems out there, that is an essential thing to be able to do if you can afford or crowdfund it.
        trwllm 3y ago
        Saying that ml models aren't open source because you don't have the data is like saying doom isn't open source because you didn't provide a proof the fast inverse square root works: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root LLMs are just very large magic numbers. That's all there is to them.
6510 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Indirect_suggestions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson#Indirect_su...
z3ncyberpunk 3y ago
damn, you sound like a robot. sad

jasonvorhe 3y ago

Mindwar by Michael Aquino goes pretty deep, but this entire topic is a bottomless pit and once you start researching him and his associates, there's no going back. This is your chance to still enjoy the steak.

quickthrower2 3y ago
A red pill?
mvdwoord 3y ago
What isn't a bottomless pit? haha, anyway, thanks for the recommendation, grabbing a copy. I totally get that feeling but fortunately I seem to be able to enjoy my steak nonetheless. I have been dipping into this ever since I got my first fast internet connection back at uni in the 90s and came across Operation Gladio. Back then there wasn't too much drivel and interesting investigative journalism was quite readily available, if you knew where to look. I think the trick in enjoying your steak is mostly in enjoying it regardless of how fucked some things are. Also, not overcooking it, and invite people over to share ;)
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  I’m in the same ship. I’m a serious conspiracy researcher (self titled) who only looks at verified sources. A decade ago I read about Propaganda Due and Operation Gladio and got fascinated. I did read a couple of books about the topic but I suspect the depth lays in some document cache somewhere in a national archive. I do believe EU countries hold some material. I was also interested in the Bloomfield archive but didn’t get the chance to dip further. These topics are also semi sensitive, I’m afraid, and might expose people like us to unnecessary dangers.
  - latentcall 3y ago
    Interesting. Didn’t know about Gladio, really cool read on Wiki. Bloomfield comes up with nothing, but I imagine I’m not looking for the right thing. :)

eth0up 3y ago

I thought Six Landscapes was absolutely brilliant, and hilarious in a twisted way. This guy is a fierce voice on the bedlam intercom.

samstave 3y ago

[flagged]

CTDOCodebases 3y ago

This was one of my favourite talks from CCC. I didn’t realise until the end when I finally looked at the video that it was the same guy.