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They should stop charging 30% App Store tax for an inferior product at the very least.

by madars 3y ago

rrdharan 3y ago
What does this mean? The App Store fees are paid by the developers / vendors. Are you saying they should pay less proportionate to the number of times their apps are downloaded to older devices?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > What does this mean? It means they’re shoehorning another issue into this discussion.
  - slaymaker1907 3y ago
    I think it’s a completely valid point. Apple is still making (potentially a lot) of money off these old devices yet isn’t willing to fully support them. It seems very unethical.
    - schiffern 3y ago
      > seems very unethical I agree. Clearly Apple should do the only ethical thing and immediately ban all unsupported devices from new App Store purchases. When Apple announces this (very ethical) policy change, I expect you to full-throatedly defend Apple from the mass shrieking cries of "but muh planned obsolescence!!" Right? Right?? ;-) In fact, one could argue it's also "very unethical" for Apple to (negligently) allow someone to use a potentially unsafe or hackable product. To be maximally ethical, Apple should be remotely bricking any Apple device the day it loses security support. Better to be on the safe ("ethical") side and remote wipe too, to protect people's data privacy. Can you see how Argument From I Merely Assert XYZ Is Unethical Then Demand Some Arbitrary Relief can quickly break down?
gghffguhvc 3y ago
15% for the vast majority of developers and apps FWIW.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Probably true, but is it the same for the vast majority of the app revenue? Quite possibly not.
wtallis 3y ago
App Store purchases aren't tied to a particular device; you can buy an app on an old device and keep using it when you get a newer device. Do you have a coherent, reasonable suggestion for how Apple could modify their business model without completely breaking it, or are you just desperate to shoehorn complaints about the App Store fees into the conversation?
- madars 3y ago
  Easy: offer a discount if purchase is made on an unsupported device, just like how grocery stores offer discounts for food that's about to expire. I don't think there is a real concern about app store economics collapsing, the app marketplace business is very lucrative. We can see this in related cases: you can avoid certain iOS taxes by purchasing your subscriptions on the web: Twitter Blue is $11 on iOS and $8 on the web. Spotify used to be $12.99 for iOS sign-ups and $9.99 on the web. Why should users pay full bundled iOS tax that supports security updates, if they are getting none?
  - wtallis 3y ago
    > Why should users pay full bundled iOS tax that supports security updates, I don't think I've ever seen someone express the expectation that Apple's App Store fees are for the purpose of supporting iOS development and maintenance. Mostly I've seen and heard the expectation that those fees are connected to running the App Store itself (payment processing, hosting, app review, etc.) and beyond that, vague profiteering. iOS itself isn't a subscription service, and Apple seems quite happy to sell you devices even if you don't spend money in the App Store. So you seem to be stretching a bit by attributing those fees to iOS maintenance and then turning around to say that unsupported iOS versions should get a discount on the fees for any services that still work.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    Your purchases carry forward to newer devices, no? If nothing else, people would keep an older device just to make purchases and then install it on their newer iPhone.
mrcarruthers 3y ago
They're not charging you, the user that 30%. They're charging the developer. Yes that does trickle down to you in the developer's pricing, but, in this instance, a phone no longer receiving security updates is not an inferior product from the point of view of the transaction in question.
kaba0 3y ago
Why exactly? Does petrol get cheaper for an old car that barely works?

They should stop charging 30% App Store tax for an inferior product at the very least.

by madars 3y ago

They should stop charging 30% App Store tax for an inferior product at the very least.

What does this mean? The App Store fees are paid by the developers / vendors. Are you saying they should pay less proportionate to the number of times their apps are downloaded to older devices?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> What does this mean? It means they’re shoehorning another issue into this discussion.
- slaymaker1907 3y ago
  I think it’s a completely valid point. Apple is still making (potentially a lot) of money off these old devices yet isn’t willing to fully support them. It seems very unethical.
  - schiffern 3y ago
    > seems very unethical I agree. Clearly Apple should do the only ethical thing and immediately ban all unsupported devices from new App Store purchases. When Apple announces this (very ethical) policy change, I expect you to full-throatedly defend Apple from the mass shrieking cries of "but muh planned obsolescence!!" Right? Right?? ;-) In fact, one could argue it's also "very unethical" for Apple to (negligently) allow someone to use a potentially unsafe or hackable product. To be maximally ethical, Apple should be remotely bricking any Apple device the day it loses security support. Better to be on the safe ("ethical") side and remote wipe too, to protect people's data privacy. Can you see how Argument From I Merely Assert XYZ Is Unethical Then Demand Some Arbitrary Relief can quickly break down?

gghffguhvc 3y ago

15% for the vast majority of developers and apps FWIW.

gnicholas 3y ago
Probably true, but is it the same for the vast majority of the app revenue? Quite possibly not.

wtallis 3y ago

App Store purchases aren't tied to a particular device; you can buy an app on an old device and keep using it when you get a newer device. Do you have a coherent, reasonable suggestion for how Apple could modify their business model without completely breaking it, or are you just desperate to shoehorn complaints about the App Store fees into the conversation?

madars 3y ago
Easy: offer a discount if purchase is made on an unsupported device, just like how grocery stores offer discounts for food that's about to expire. I don't think there is a real concern about app store economics collapsing, the app marketplace business is very lucrative. We can see this in related cases: you can avoid certain iOS taxes by purchasing your subscriptions on the web: Twitter Blue is $11 on iOS and $8 on the web. Spotify used to be $12.99 for iOS sign-ups and $9.99 on the web. Why should users pay full bundled iOS tax that supports security updates, if they are getting none?
- wtallis 3y ago
  > Why should users pay full bundled iOS tax that supports security updates, I don't think I've ever seen someone express the expectation that Apple's App Store fees are for the purpose of supporting iOS development and maintenance. Mostly I've seen and heard the expectation that those fees are connected to running the App Store itself (payment processing, hosting, app review, etc.) and beyond that, vague profiteering. iOS itself isn't a subscription service, and Apple seems quite happy to sell you devices even if you don't spend money in the App Store. So you seem to be stretching a bit by attributing those fees to iOS maintenance and then turning around to say that unsupported iOS versions should get a discount on the fees for any services that still work.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  Your purchases carry forward to newer devices, no? If nothing else, people would keep an older device just to make purchases and then install it on their newer iPhone.

mrcarruthers 3y ago

They're not charging you, the user that 30%. They're charging the developer. Yes that does trickle down to you in the developer's pricing, but, in this instance, a phone no longer receiving security updates is not an inferior product from the point of view of the transaction in question.

kaba0 3y ago

Why exactly? Does petrol get cheaper for an old car that barely works?