4 ms·

I'm not sure I agree. I love how recent movies feature a broader range of characters. I was watching the Super Mario Bros Movie yesterday (not Disney) and it w

by nicbou 3y ago

I'm not sure I agree. I love how recent movies feature a broader range of characters. I was watching the Super Mario Bros Movie yesterday (not Disney) and it was so refreshing to see a strong, leading princess. Likewise I absolutely love seeing different kinds of people featured in Disney movies. It feels like they finally started putting a bit of everyone into their movies. It does not feel forced at all. And why is messaging a problem? Wasn't Wall-E great? And what about The Wind Rises (not Disney)? Did Soul suffer from its messaging? In my opinion, Disney's problem is not messaging, but phoning it on with tried-and-true recipes, and playing it safe instead of exploring what the medium can offer.

theshrike79 3y ago
Wall-E was made in the pre-messaging-first age. There is a message, but the main focus is between Wall-E and EVE. They didn't add any LGBTQIA+ themes or racial issues in there, because it didn't make sense for the message - which was "take care of the environment" Strong leading women aren't the problem either. We've had those ages ago. I think the first major one for Pixar was Brave (2012). For Disney we had Ariel, Pocahontas and Mulan in the late 1900s. Disney's problem is that they forgot that story and characters come first, a movie doesn't have to have an overt agenda. I'd prefer the 80's tv cartoon style where they always had The Lesson in the end of the episode after He-Man spent 20 minutes beating up bad guys in the toy ad disguised as entertainment.
- wharvle 3y ago
  > Strong leading women aren't the problem either. We've had those ages ago. Hell, Leia’s depicted as more savvy, braver, tougher, and cleverer than the other two main characters in 1977 Star Wars, and it’s not even close. Or subtle.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    There's a difference, she's savvy, brave, tough and clever. As she should. But she doesn't solo the whole Imperial Army while the rest are just sidekicks. She has her strengths, Hand and Luke have theirs.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    You're right, Leia was a much better character than Rey. Could it be that messaging aside, the newer movies are just lazily written? I place them in the same bucket as the last seasons of Game or Thrones. What makes them bad is not the wokeness, but simply the bad writing. I think that we can have both: trope subversions and good writing. I don't think that the problem is too many subversions; it's not enough good writing.
    - wharvle 3y ago
      His dialog and such seem fine (or at least he doesn’t screw up what others put there) but JJ Abrams’ plotting, in particular, is chiefly defined by its… well, generously, childlike qualities. You can certainly tell when he’s been involved in a script. “Lazy” would certainly be a term one might apply to it.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      > You're right, Leia was a much better character than Rey. Rey's issue is what's plaguing too many female movie characters today. She had no flaws she had to overcome. She was perfect from the start and didn't have to grow. She had a few training montages in the movie, but that's about it. In Brave for example, Merida's pride (a flaw) causes her mother to be cursed. She has to learn to accept help from others to grow.
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    She's all those things, but she's still a princess. Even better is Ellen Ripley in 1979's "Alien": she's just a space trucker basically, doing a shitty, dirty job hauling ore from distant star systems, and suddenly has to deal with a human-hunting xenomorph. She returns in 1986's "Aliens" and takes on a giant alien queen single-handedly after rescuing some space marines.
- esprehn 3y ago
  > For Disney we had Ariel, Pocahontas and Mulan in the late 1900s. That's debatable. For example Ariel trades her ability to talk so she can use her body to impress a man. Academics usually consider the strong female character to be Ursula, and she's depicted as unattractive and then brutally murdered with a ship.
  - kcplate 3y ago
    > the strong female character to be Ursula, and she's depicted as unattractive and then brutally murdered with a ship. She’s literally the villain character in a fairytale cartoon who is based on a witch character that was written almost 200 years ago. Seems like the depiction is appropriate to the character trope. How many fairytale witches get the pretty face and happy ending?
- RhysU 3y ago
  > Wall-E was made in the pre-messaging-first age. Which part of the fat consumers destroying their planet was pre-messaging?
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    Messaging _FIRST_ Disney and Pixar stuff has had _a_ message for a long time. Before they didn't feel the need to tackle every single issue from LGBTQIA+ representation to racism in a single movie. They just focused on the environment. If Wall-E was made today, it'd have a gay/queer/nonbinary character in it, every major race and culture would be represented possibly as other bots with distinct accents etc. The full DEI checklist.
throwawa14223 3y ago
> So refreshing to see a strong, leading princess Is there a movie made in the last five years that wasn't this? At this point it would be radical if the damsel was actually in distress.

by nicbou 3y ago

theshrike79 3y ago

Wall-E was made in the pre-messaging-first age. There is a message, but the main focus is between Wall-E and EVE. They didn't add any LGBTQIA+ themes or racial issues in there, because it didn't make sense for the message - which was "take care of the environment" Strong leading women aren't the problem either. We've had those ages ago. I think the first major one for Pixar was Brave (2012). For Disney we had Ariel, Pocahontas and Mulan in the late 1900s. Disney's problem is that they forgot that story and characters come first, a movie doesn't have to have an overt agenda. I'd prefer the 80's tv cartoon style where they always had The Lesson in the end of the episode after He-Man spent 20 minutes beating up bad guys in the toy ad disguised as entertainment.

wharvle 3y ago
> Strong leading women aren't the problem either. We've had those ages ago. Hell, Leia’s depicted as more savvy, braver, tougher, and cleverer than the other two main characters in 1977 Star Wars, and it’s not even close. Or subtle.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  There's a difference, she's savvy, brave, tough and clever. As she should. But she doesn't solo the whole Imperial Army while the rest are just sidekicks. She has her strengths, Hand and Luke have theirs.
- nicbou 3y ago
  You're right, Leia was a much better character than Rey. Could it be that messaging aside, the newer movies are just lazily written? I place them in the same bucket as the last seasons of Game or Thrones. What makes them bad is not the wokeness, but simply the bad writing. I think that we can have both: trope subversions and good writing. I don't think that the problem is too many subversions; it's not enough good writing.
  - wharvle 3y ago
    His dialog and such seem fine (or at least he doesn’t screw up what others put there) but JJ Abrams’ plotting, in particular, is chiefly defined by its… well, generously, childlike qualities. You can certainly tell when he’s been involved in a script. “Lazy” would certainly be a term one might apply to it.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    > You're right, Leia was a much better character than Rey. Rey's issue is what's plaguing too many female movie characters today. She had no flaws she had to overcome. She was perfect from the start and didn't have to grow. She had a few training montages in the movie, but that's about it. In Brave for example, Merida's pride (a flaw) causes her mother to be cursed. She has to learn to accept help from others to grow.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  She's all those things, but she's still a princess. Even better is Ellen Ripley in 1979's "Alien": she's just a space trucker basically, doing a shitty, dirty job hauling ore from distant star systems, and suddenly has to deal with a human-hunting xenomorph. She returns in 1986's "Aliens" and takes on a giant alien queen single-handedly after rescuing some space marines.
esprehn 3y ago
> For Disney we had Ariel, Pocahontas and Mulan in the late 1900s. That's debatable. For example Ariel trades her ability to talk so she can use her body to impress a man. Academics usually consider the strong female character to be Ursula, and she's depicted as unattractive and then brutally murdered with a ship.
- kcplate 3y ago
  > the strong female character to be Ursula, and she's depicted as unattractive and then brutally murdered with a ship. She’s literally the villain character in a fairytale cartoon who is based on a witch character that was written almost 200 years ago. Seems like the depiction is appropriate to the character trope. How many fairytale witches get the pretty face and happy ending?
RhysU 3y ago
> Wall-E was made in the pre-messaging-first age. Which part of the fat consumers destroying their planet was pre-messaging?
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Messaging _FIRST_ Disney and Pixar stuff has had _a_ message for a long time. Before they didn't feel the need to tackle every single issue from LGBTQIA+ representation to racism in a single movie. They just focused on the environment. If Wall-E was made today, it'd have a gay/queer/nonbinary character in it, every major race and culture would be represented possibly as other bots with distinct accents etc. The full DEI checklist.

throwawa14223 3y ago

> So refreshing to see a strong, leading princess Is there a movie made in the last five years that wasn't this? At this point it would be radical if the damsel was actually in distress.