4 ms·

It was, up to the point the only German nuclear powered vessel was a cargo ship. It was tried in the heyday of nuclear power, and didn't go anywhere. So yes, ci

by hef19898 3y ago

It was, up to the point the only German nuclear powered vessel was a cargo ship. It was tried in the heyday of nuclear power, and didn't go anywhere. So yes, civilian nuclear ships have been tried and found to be expensive, not feasible and a dead end, or, if you use different words, stupid.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> the only German nuclear powered vessel was a cargo ship I was referring to the NS Savannah [1]. Put her engine and crew requirements on a modern supertanker and you have an economically viable, environmentally friendly ship. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah
- hef19898 3y ago
  The only nation that has experience with civilian, nuclear powered vessels today is Russia with its fleet of icebreakers. And let's be realistic, military maritime reactor tech will never see use in civilian vessels, same as military jet engines, those purely developed for milotary purposes, don't see civilian use neither. And the latest Russian buold programm delivered: - Artika, laid down in 2013 and delivered in 2017, entry into service delayed from 2019 to 2020 and again to 2021 due damages during trials - Sibir was laid down in 2015 and delivered operationally in 2022 - Ural was laid down in 2016 and entered service in 2022 - Yakutia was laid down in 2020, planned entry into service is 2024 - Chukotka was laid down end of 2020, planned entry into service is 2026 Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-nuclear-applications/transport/nuclear-powered-ships.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-... That's it for civilian nuclear vessels. Meanwhile, in 2022 (a slow year apparently), 182 tankers, 350 container vessels and 69 car transporters were ordered. I didn't find actual deliveries after cursory search. Source: https://insights.clarksons.net/2022-shipbuilding-review/ https://insights.clarksons.net/2022-shipbuilding-review/ As for the small, mass producable reactors needed for civilian use: "At the moment, several technology providers are dealing with manufacturing of prototypes, the development processes of which are at different levels of maturity, envisaging more or less a decade before completing proof of concepts." Source: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/maritime-industry-explores-nuclear-power-ships-technology-opens-up-2023-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/maritime-industry-exp... The first source also has this to say about NS Savannah and the Herman Otto Hahn: Development of nuclear merchant ships began in the 1950s but on the whole has not been commercially successful. The 22,000 tonne US-built NS Savannah, was commissioned in 1962 and decommissioned eight years later. The reactor used 4.2% and 4.6% enriched uranium. It was a technical success, but not economically viable. It had a 74 MWt reactor delivering 16.4 MW to the propeller, but the reactor was uprated to 80 MWt in 1964. The German-built 15,000 tonne Otto Hahn cargo ship and research facility sailed some 650,000 nautical miles on 126 voyages in 10 years without any technical problems. It had a 36 MWt reactor delivering 8 MW to the propeller. However, it proved too expensive to operate and in 1982 it was converted to diesel. Meanwhile, the US Navy has nuclear subs and aircraft carriers, but all other nuclear surface vessels have been retired. In short, we are at least ten years away from a suitable proof of concept reactor design (tue NS Savannah one already showed to be not economical), let alone from having an industrial base to build hundreds of those each and every year. And therein lies the big problem with nuclear power: it is too expensive and takes too much time to be of any good short term. And if we managed to find a solution short term, and in a lot of cases we already have technical solitions that are deployed, we don't need nuclear mid to long term anymore.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> the only German nuclear powered vessel was a cargo ship I was referring to the NS Savannah [1]. Put her engine and crew requirements on a modern supertanker and you have an economically viable, environmentally friendly ship. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

hef19898 3y ago
The only nation that has experience with civilian, nuclear powered vessels today is Russia with its fleet of icebreakers. And let's be realistic, military maritime reactor tech will never see use in civilian vessels, same as military jet engines, those purely developed for milotary purposes, don't see civilian use neither. And the latest Russian buold programm delivered: - Artika, laid down in 2013 and delivered in 2017, entry into service delayed from 2019 to 2020 and again to 2021 due damages during trials - Sibir was laid down in 2015 and delivered operationally in 2022 - Ural was laid down in 2016 and entered service in 2022 - Yakutia was laid down in 2020, planned entry into service is 2024 - Chukotka was laid down end of 2020, planned entry into service is 2026 Source: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-nuclear-applications/transport/nuclear-powered-ships.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/non-power-... That's it for civilian nuclear vessels. Meanwhile, in 2022 (a slow year apparently), 182 tankers, 350 container vessels and 69 car transporters were ordered. I didn't find actual deliveries after cursory search. Source: https://insights.clarksons.net/2022-shipbuilding-review/ https://insights.clarksons.net/2022-shipbuilding-review/ As for the small, mass producable reactors needed for civilian use: "At the moment, several technology providers are dealing with manufacturing of prototypes, the development processes of which are at different levels of maturity, envisaging more or less a decade before completing proof of concepts." Source: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/maritime-industry-explores-nuclear-power-ships-technology-opens-up-2023-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/maritime-industry-exp... The first source also has this to say about NS Savannah and the Herman Otto Hahn: Development of nuclear merchant ships began in the 1950s but on the whole has not been commercially successful. The 22,000 tonne US-built NS Savannah, was commissioned in 1962 and decommissioned eight years later. The reactor used 4.2% and 4.6% enriched uranium. It was a technical success, but not economically viable. It had a 74 MWt reactor delivering 16.4 MW to the propeller, but the reactor was uprated to 80 MWt in 1964. The German-built 15,000 tonne Otto Hahn cargo ship and research facility sailed some 650,000 nautical miles on 126 voyages in 10 years without any technical problems. It had a 36 MWt reactor delivering 8 MW to the propeller. However, it proved too expensive to operate and in 1982 it was converted to diesel. Meanwhile, the US Navy has nuclear subs and aircraft carriers, but all other nuclear surface vessels have been retired. In short, we are at least ten years away from a suitable proof of concept reactor design (tue NS Savannah one already showed to be not economical), let alone from having an industrial base to build hundreds of those each and every year. And therein lies the big problem with nuclear power: it is too expensive and takes too much time to be of any good short term. And if we managed to find a solution short term, and in a lot of cases we already have technical solitions that are deployed, we don't need nuclear mid to long term anymore.