4 ms·

What surprises me is that all states with high minimum wage (CA, WA, OR, etc.) are the ones with the most homelessness; while all others do not have homelessnes

by natas 3y ago

What surprises me is that all states with high minimum wage (CA, WA, OR, etc.) are the ones with the most homelessness; while all others do not have homelessness, drugs, and other sort of problems; or at least, not to the magnitude of high-wages states. Probably because low-wage jobs are necessary for the lower class to find jobs.

CamperBob2 3y ago
So, it's not surprising after all, it sounds like. Pretending that every job is worth $20/hour apparently has "unforeseen consequences"... the kind that the legislators and voters were warned about repeatedly.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Every [1] study [2] on minimum wages [3] using empirical data showed de minimis to positive effects on employment. There is absolutely a wage where employment is curtailed. But there is no evidence anyone in America has hit it. Much more corrosive to hiring is the amount of paperwork involved. [1] https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf [2] https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/working-papers/minimum-wage-effects-in-low-wage-areas/ https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/working-papers/minimu... [3] https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/685449 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/685449
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    And yet there are a lot of unemployed people hanging around in the areas in question. If correlation==causation is sauce for the goose, it's good for ganders, too. Paperwork? Really?
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > yet there are a lot of unemployed people hanging around in the areas in question It’s almost like there are other variables involved. And again, you’re comparing highly-productive regions to ones that require federal subsidies to stay afloat.
- mcphage 3y ago
  > Pretending that every job is worth $20/hour apparently has "unforeseen consequences" Pretending that companies can do things they can't afford to, by paying people less than they need, also has consequences. Although they're not really "unforeseen" since we've been seeing the consequences of it for decades now.
  - ahallock 3y ago
    I didn't need a livable wage as a teenager. It was a way to get extra spending cash/job experience. Granted, wages definitely haven't kept up, so I agree in part. It's sad that people need these menial jobs--which will probably be automated at some point--to survive, instead of being able to pursue something more meaningful.
    - danaris 3y ago
      And if minimum wages were, in fact, limited to teenagers who were fully supported by their parents (as opposed to, say, teenagers whose parents were disabled, already living on a fixed income, or otherwise poor and relying on the extra income from the teenager's job), that might hold some weight. As it stands, people just use that as an excuse for retaining sub-livable minimum wages for everyone.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> states with high minimum wage (CA, WA, OR, etc.) are the ones with the most homelessness Adjust for GDP/capita or urbanisation (they go hand in hand) and housing cost.
jpalawaga 3y ago
or maybe the states you listed have relatively mild winters, good social programs, and liberal (as in liberty, not as in libs) mindset.
- anon291 3y ago
  Florida, Texas don't have mild winters?
  - jpalawaga 3y ago
    I think you might have replied to my comment before reading past the first 10 words.
    - anon291 3y ago
      I'm not sure what you qualify as good but Oregon does not have great social programs. In fact, it lags behind on many indicators. California and Washington are pretty well off. Oregon is often in the bottom 1/2 of most metrics.
pdntspa 3y ago
Everyone you mentioned is on the west coast, where the weather is favorable for being homeless and where many other states tend to ship their homeless via one-way bus tickets
Clamchop 3y ago
Shameless politicized spitballing.

by natas 3y ago

CamperBob2 3y ago

So, it's not surprising after all, it sounds like. Pretending that every job is worth $20/hour apparently has "unforeseen consequences"... the kind that the legislators and voters were warned about repeatedly.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Every [1] study [2] on minimum wages [3] using empirical data showed de minimis to positive effects on employment. There is absolutely a wage where employment is curtailed. But there is no evidence anyone in America has hit it. Much more corrosive to hiring is the amount of paperwork involved. [1] https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf [2] https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/working-papers/minimum-wage-effects-in-low-wage-areas/ https://irle.berkeley.edu/publications/working-papers/minimu... [3] https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/685449 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/685449
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  And yet there are a lot of unemployed people hanging around in the areas in question. If correlation==causation is sauce for the goose, it's good for ganders, too. Paperwork? Really?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > yet there are a lot of unemployed people hanging around in the areas in question It’s almost like there are other variables involved. And again, you’re comparing highly-productive regions to ones that require federal subsidies to stay afloat.
mcphage 3y ago
> Pretending that every job is worth $20/hour apparently has "unforeseen consequences" Pretending that companies can do things they can't afford to, by paying people less than they need, also has consequences. Although they're not really "unforeseen" since we've been seeing the consequences of it for decades now.
- ahallock 3y ago
  I didn't need a livable wage as a teenager. It was a way to get extra spending cash/job experience. Granted, wages definitely haven't kept up, so I agree in part. It's sad that people need these menial jobs--which will probably be automated at some point--to survive, instead of being able to pursue something more meaningful.
  - danaris 3y ago
    And if minimum wages were, in fact, limited to teenagers who were fully supported by their parents (as opposed to, say, teenagers whose parents were disabled, already living on a fixed income, or otherwise poor and relying on the extra income from the teenager's job), that might hold some weight. As it stands, people just use that as an excuse for retaining sub-livable minimum wages for everyone.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> states with high minimum wage (CA, WA, OR, etc.) are the ones with the most homelessness Adjust for GDP/capita or urbanisation (they go hand in hand) and housing cost.

jpalawaga 3y ago

or maybe the states you listed have relatively mild winters, good social programs, and liberal (as in liberty, not as in libs) mindset.

anon291 3y ago
Florida, Texas don't have mild winters?
- jpalawaga 3y ago
  I think you might have replied to my comment before reading past the first 10 words.
  - anon291 3y ago
    I'm not sure what you qualify as good but Oregon does not have great social programs. In fact, it lags behind on many indicators. California and Washington are pretty well off. Oregon is often in the bottom 1/2 of most metrics.

pdntspa 3y ago

Everyone you mentioned is on the west coast, where the weather is favorable for being homeless and where many other states tend to ship their homeless via one-way bus tickets

Clamchop 3y ago

Shameless politicized spitballing.