4 ms·

I find it wild that they'd rather just hand all that money over to Grubhub.

altairprime 3y ago
“Move fast and externalize costs” is the private equity slogan, and it’s very applicable here. Deliveries are a competitive feature, not a core market focus. Replacing benefits-laden delivery employees with a temp agency that can just invoice for deliveries is a dream come true for a megacorp. Are temp workers for DoorDash et al. paid the new fast food minimum wage when performing contract work for fast food businesses in California?
- csa 3y ago
  > Are temp workers for DoorDash et al. paid the new fast food minimum wage when performing contract work for fast food businesses in California? Yes and no, if my understanding of the current CA gig economy is correct. They will be guaranteed $20 an hour (edit: plus a 20% premium?) while picking up and delivering, but earn nothing while waiting to receive an order to work on. This may seem bad on the surface, but many delivery folks I have spoken to value the flexibility of not having to be on someone else’s schedule.
  - altairprime 3y ago
    $20/hour regardless of whether it’s Best Buy or McDonalds, though?
    - csa 3y ago
      Good question. Definitely not Best Buy. There is only an increase for fast food workers and certain health care workers. Not sure whether food delivery gig work will fall under “fast food”. Probably not. Note that I think most of the CA people make 19+ an hour for “pick up and delivery” already. $16 an hour plus $3.20 for the gig bump plus mileage (and tax write offs).
      - altairprime 3y ago
        So, then, if California’s new law fails to pierce the subcontracting veil, then this arbitrage loophole is valid: Pizza Whatever Corp outsources delivery for $X less per hour than a fast food worker would cost, either pocketing the difference in wages rather than paying it to workers as the state intended, and/or undercutting the prices of any competitors still using delivery employees. I imagine there would be interesting outcomes from filing unpaid wages claims with the California m labor department against Doordash and other temp agencies for the difference between hourly wages paid and fast food worker hourly wages owed, when performing delivery services for fast food businesses that are in-scope for the law.
Trumpi 3y ago
My understanding is that they aren't handing over any money... we are.
wlesieutre 3y ago
You’re also allowed to order takeout and pick it up yourself if you don’t want to pay Grubhub prices
- Larrikin 3y ago
  Delivery used to be free, especially at chain pizza places
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    It was never free, it was subsidized by pick up or eat in. Now that prices are high and margins are tightened (blame practical downstream or “greedy corporations” or just MBAs, I don’t care) that subsidy isn’t bearable. So you pay for delivery.
    - JoyfulTurkey 3y ago
      I think “free” in the sense that it was the same price whether you picked it up or had the place deliver. You only had to tip the driver. This was for delivery only places like Dominos/local chains near me. The couple of dollars extra for delivery fees started maybe in the mid/late 2000s where I am (midwest USA).
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      >It was never free, it was subsidized by pick up or eat in. Or not. Sometimes extra costs simply come out of the bottom line because it is better to make a delivery sale with lower margin, than lose the sale entirely. The idea that it must be subsidized only makes sense if every pizza place has no profit.
noduerme 3y ago
I imagine that the premium they pay Grubhub is going to be a lot less than employing full time drivers. And Grubhub drivers live on tips and don't make minimum wage,right? So this will end up being cheaper for consumers than a 25% increase in delivery cost.
Larrikin 3y ago
Big chain delivery serviced through the delivery apps is the worst of all worlds. Various services, credit cards, and banks will get you "premium" membership for free at this point, but the store front on Door dash.com is locked down corporate shit that barely allows substitutions, no notes, and no coupons. Ordering on the restaurants actual website will get you the coupons, the member points, the specials, but then they hide the fact it's delivered by a delivery app until the very last step, which charges the full fee of the delivery app plus a little more to make up for what the company is paying for the service. You end being able to get what you actually want but still pay more. Then you get a driver sitting around so they can make multiple deliveries while your food gets cold. And they still want a tip. And Door dash couldn't make a profit when we were all locked inside of our houses and restaurants could only make deliveries. It will be nice when people realize how shitty the deal has become and these delivery service companies finally crash and we go back to restaurants needing their own drivers
- solardev 3y ago
  I dunno, it's really nice being able to get food other than pizza delivered. Most restaurants can't afford to do that on their own.
cowsup 3y ago
Grubhub takes between 5%-20% [0]. So for a $30 meal from pizza hut, assuming they're charged the full 20% (not likely), that's $6. Four deliveries in an hour would be $24 lost. Compare that to paying someone $20 an hour, with no guarantee that that single employee will do four deliveries each hour. If it's a typical day, you may send them out to 20 or fewer deliveries in an eight hour shift, and they get $160 for that shift. Compared to Grubhub, which charges a flat $120 for those 20 deliveries. Not to mention the benefit of not worrying about them calling out sick, training, payroll taxes, etc. And, again, Pizza Hut is likely able to negotiate something better than that 20%. https://get.grubhub.com/faq/what-fees-does-grubhub-charge-restaurants/ https://get.grubhub.com/faq/what-fees-does-grubhub-charge-re...

“Move fast and externalize costs” is the private equity slogan, and it’s very applicable here. Deliveries are a competitive feature, not a core market focus. Replacing benefits-laden delivery employees with a temp agency that can just invoice for deliveries is a dream come true for a megacorp. Are temp workers for DoorDash et al. paid the new fast food minimum wage when performing contract work for fast food businesses in California?

csa 3y ago
> Are temp workers for DoorDash et al. paid the new fast food minimum wage when performing contract work for fast food businesses in California? Yes and no, if my understanding of the current CA gig economy is correct. They will be guaranteed $20 an hour (edit: plus a 20% premium?) while picking up and delivering, but earn nothing while waiting to receive an order to work on. This may seem bad on the surface, but many delivery folks I have spoken to value the flexibility of not having to be on someone else’s schedule.
- altairprime 3y ago
  $20/hour regardless of whether it’s Best Buy or McDonalds, though?
  - csa 3y ago
    Good question. Definitely not Best Buy. There is only an increase for fast food workers and certain health care workers. Not sure whether food delivery gig work will fall under “fast food”. Probably not. Note that I think most of the CA people make 19+ an hour for “pick up and delivery” already. $16 an hour plus $3.20 for the gig bump plus mileage (and tax write offs).
    - altairprime 3y ago
      So, then, if California’s new law fails to pierce the subcontracting veil, then this arbitrage loophole is valid: Pizza Whatever Corp outsources delivery for $X less per hour than a fast food worker would cost, either pocketing the difference in wages rather than paying it to workers as the state intended, and/or undercutting the prices of any competitors still using delivery employees. I imagine there would be interesting outcomes from filing unpaid wages claims with the California m labor department against Doordash and other temp agencies for the difference between hourly wages paid and fast food worker hourly wages owed, when performing delivery services for fast food businesses that are in-scope for the law.

Trumpi 3y ago

My understanding is that they aren't handing over any money... we are.

wlesieutre 3y ago

You’re also allowed to order takeout and pick it up yourself if you don’t want to pay Grubhub prices

Larrikin 3y ago
Delivery used to be free, especially at chain pizza places
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  It was never free, it was subsidized by pick up or eat in. Now that prices are high and margins are tightened (blame practical downstream or “greedy corporations” or just MBAs, I don’t care) that subsidy isn’t bearable. So you pay for delivery.
  - JoyfulTurkey 3y ago
    I think “free” in the sense that it was the same price whether you picked it up or had the place deliver. You only had to tip the driver. This was for delivery only places like Dominos/local chains near me. The couple of dollars extra for delivery fees started maybe in the mid/late 2000s where I am (midwest USA).
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    >It was never free, it was subsidized by pick up or eat in. Or not. Sometimes extra costs simply come out of the bottom line because it is better to make a delivery sale with lower margin, than lose the sale entirely. The idea that it must be subsidized only makes sense if every pizza place has no profit.

noduerme 3y ago

I imagine that the premium they pay Grubhub is going to be a lot less than employing full time drivers. And Grubhub drivers live on tips and don't make minimum wage,right? So this will end up being cheaper for consumers than a 25% increase in delivery cost.

Larrikin 3y ago

Big chain delivery serviced through the delivery apps is the worst of all worlds. Various services, credit cards, and banks will get you "premium" membership for free at this point, but the store front on Door dash.com is locked down corporate shit that barely allows substitutions, no notes, and no coupons. Ordering on the restaurants actual website will get you the coupons, the member points, the specials, but then they hide the fact it's delivered by a delivery app until the very last step, which charges the full fee of the delivery app plus a little more to make up for what the company is paying for the service. You end being able to get what you actually want but still pay more. Then you get a driver sitting around so they can make multiple deliveries while your food gets cold. And they still want a tip. And Door dash couldn't make a profit when we were all locked inside of our houses and restaurants could only make deliveries. It will be nice when people realize how shitty the deal has become and these delivery service companies finally crash and we go back to restaurants needing their own drivers

solardev 3y ago
I dunno, it's really nice being able to get food other than pizza delivered. Most restaurants can't afford to do that on their own.

cowsup 3y ago

Grubhub takes between 5%-20% [0]. So for a $30 meal from pizza hut, assuming they're charged the full 20% (not likely), that's $6. Four deliveries in an hour would be $24 lost. Compare that to paying someone $20 an hour, with no guarantee that that single employee will do four deliveries each hour. If it's a typical day, you may send them out to 20 or fewer deliveries in an eight hour shift, and they get $160 for that shift. Compared to Grubhub, which charges a flat $120 for those 20 deliveries. Not to mention the benefit of not worrying about them calling out sick, training, payroll taxes, etc. And, again, Pizza Hut is likely able to negotiate something better than that 20%. https://get.grubhub.com/faq/what-fees-does-grubhub-charge-restaurants/ https://get.grubhub.com/faq/what-fees-does-grubhub-charge-re...