3 ms·

It's not just a social formality. A lot of people buy into it. It's wierd. It's a sort of lie told to ourselves. If a person lies to themselves basically it mea

It's not just a social formality. A lot of people buy into it. It's wierd. It's a sort of lie told to ourselves. If a person lies to themselves basically it means that part of them believes in the lie, and another part of them knows the truth. Everyone at least has one lie they tell themselves so you can sort of relate. Everyone and I mean everyone is aware of the social formality you're talking about. There's literally no need to spell it out because you're just regurgitating truths that are obvious and self evident. The only time you would need to spell it out is when you encounter a poor soul who lies to himself. That's why my post was sarcastic because it's so obviously not true. Rich people do not actually respect poor people... it's absurd. Anyway as for lying to one self... This is exactly what wolverine is doing. There's no winning here. That person will continuously construct a scaffold of rational points to support his beliefs because not doing so results in some sort of admission he can't directly face. But even so... an aspect of him knows you're telling the actual truth.

wolverine876 3y ago
Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' What supports your claims? Why are you so certain that there's nothing beyond them, nothing more to the world that you could learn? > Rich people do not actually respect poor people... it's absurd. Certainly not all do, and certainly not all don't. I'll point out that equality is a popular, fundamental notion across cultures. "all men are created equal" Liberté, égalité, fraternité. It's the foundation of democracy, where poor and rich have the same vote.
- corethree 3y ago
  >Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' What else can I say? The points being talked about here are so obvious that it seems ludicrous to me that people don't believe it. From my perspective it's like someone was explaining to you that 2 + 2 = 4 and I'm more inclined to believe that you're just being delusional and lying to yourself. But that's the nature of bias isn't it? Maybe I'm the delusional one. But there's no real way we'll convince one another otherwise. >Certainly not all do, and certainly not all don't. Most don't. It's just a general truth. Just like most men don't wear dresses, or most men are stronger than women, or most humans have 10 fingers. There ARE exceptions, but that does not eliminate the existence of a very general and very obvious truth. And let me clarify what I mean by respect. I don't just mean lip service, or donations or creating non-profit charities because it's the current trending thing to do. I mean actual respect. Like genuine respect where you look up to them, hang out with them as peers and even genuine trust. Rich people do NOT actually respect poor people. >I'll point out that equality is a popular, fundamental notion across cultures. "all men are created equal" Liberté, égalité, fraternité. It's the foundation of democracy, where poor and rich have the same vote. All men are NOT created equal. Think about it. This isn't even remotely true or real. It is also why not all people are equal under democracy. Have you ever wondered why we want everything politically to be fair under democracy while economically we want everything to be unfair under capitalism? It's so ironic we associate communism with dictatorship and capitalism with democracy.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    >> Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' > What else can I say? The points being talked about here are so obvious that it seems ludicrous to me that people don't believe it. From my perspective it's like someone was explaining to you that 2 + 2 = 4 and I'm more inclined to believe that you're just being delusional and lying to yourself. What you can do is provide evidence and reason. That's what separates delusion from fact, what protects us from bias. That something is obvious etc. to you is not evidence; it fits just as well a delusion. We're all subject to delusion. That you seem to believe it only affects others regarding this issue, and not yourself, makes you a strong candidate for it IMHO. Also that you seem completely incurious about what other people think on this issue; you just rule them out a priori. That's another strong signal, at least when I find myself doing that.
    - corethree 3y ago
      If someone says 2 + 2 = 5 I also rule them out "a priori". I'm just biased like that. You clearly aren't. So you should spend more time considering my side of the argument because clearly you're the less biased and more rational person here. But I would suggest not bothering with posting another argument here for me to read. Just consider my points internally. My dogmatic stance is unlikely to change since I am the more biased and less rational party here so anything you reply with is unlikely to convince me. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic here. Genuinely I will not even consider 2 + 2 = 5.

wolverine876 3y ago

Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' What supports your claims? Why are you so certain that there's nothing beyond them, nothing more to the world that you could learn? > Rich people do not actually respect poor people... it's absurd. Certainly not all do, and certainly not all don't. I'll point out that equality is a popular, fundamental notion across cultures. "all men are created equal" Liberté, égalité, fraternité. It's the foundation of democracy, where poor and rich have the same vote.

corethree 3y ago
>Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' What else can I say? The points being talked about here are so obvious that it seems ludicrous to me that people don't believe it. From my perspective it's like someone was explaining to you that 2 + 2 = 4 and I'm more inclined to believe that you're just being delusional and lying to yourself. But that's the nature of bias isn't it? Maybe I'm the delusional one. But there's no real way we'll convince one another otherwise. >Certainly not all do, and certainly not all don't. Most don't. It's just a general truth. Just like most men don't wear dresses, or most men are stronger than women, or most humans have 10 fingers. There ARE exceptions, but that does not eliminate the existence of a very general and very obvious truth. And let me clarify what I mean by respect. I don't just mean lip service, or donations or creating non-profit charities because it's the current trending thing to do. I mean actual respect. Like genuine respect where you look up to them, hang out with them as peers and even genuine trust. Rich people do NOT actually respect poor people. >I'll point out that equality is a popular, fundamental notion across cultures. "all men are created equal" Liberté, égalité, fraternité. It's the foundation of democracy, where poor and rich have the same vote. All men are NOT created equal. Think about it. This isn't even remotely true or real. It is also why not all people are equal under democracy. Have you ever wondered why we want everything politically to be fair under democracy while economically we want everything to be unfair under capitalism? It's so ironic we associate communism with dictatorship and capitalism with democracy.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  >> Are you saying anything more than: 'My perspective and beliefs are the truth, and therefore anyone who disagrees is deluding themselves?' > What else can I say? The points being talked about here are so obvious that it seems ludicrous to me that people don't believe it. From my perspective it's like someone was explaining to you that 2 + 2 = 4 and I'm more inclined to believe that you're just being delusional and lying to yourself. What you can do is provide evidence and reason. That's what separates delusion from fact, what protects us from bias. That something is obvious etc. to you is not evidence; it fits just as well a delusion. We're all subject to delusion. That you seem to believe it only affects others regarding this issue, and not yourself, makes you a strong candidate for it IMHO. Also that you seem completely incurious about what other people think on this issue; you just rule them out a priori. That's another strong signal, at least when I find myself doing that.
  - corethree 3y ago
    If someone says 2 + 2 = 5 I also rule them out "a priori". I'm just biased like that. You clearly aren't. So you should spend more time considering my side of the argument because clearly you're the less biased and more rational person here. But I would suggest not bothering with posting another argument here for me to read. Just consider my points internally. My dogmatic stance is unlikely to change since I am the more biased and less rational party here so anything you reply with is unlikely to convince me. I'm not being snarky or sarcastic here. Genuinely I will not even consider 2 + 2 = 5.