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It always grates me when people with lot's of money tell people who don't have lot's of money, that it's not about the money. Money my not equal happiness, but

It always grates me when people with lot's of money tell people who don't have lot's of money, that it's not about the money. Money my not equal happiness, but a lack of money certainly equals stress and misery. And while people are being stressed and miserable, they're not at their best. I think people would find it hard to be so nonchalant about the importance of money and the benefits it can bring if they were worried about how they were going to pay the rent, or if they had a sick kid they couldn't afford to treat properly.

andrewfelix 15y ago
Right on. It's not about being able to drive a Porsche, it's about not having to worry about the rent.
simonh 15y ago
I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. Conversely, people who primarily focus on making as much money as possible are susceptible to making mistakes such as scrimping on necessary expenses, or sacrificing relationships with valuable business partners.
- swombat 15y ago
  I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. I agree - if all you care about is money, you won't become successful. You'll probably become rich, though. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. But a good business is one that makes money (apart from the instagrams and other lottery tickets of this world). So focusing on making money is necessary to them too. If you do a great job for your customers but you don't charge them, and so you run out of money and go bankrupt - well, you haven't built a great business at all. Conversely, people who primarily focus on making as much money as possible are susceptible to making mistakes such as scrimping on necessary expenses, or sacrificing relationships with valuable business partners. I think you're confusing short-sighted focus with "focus". Warren Buffet has primarily focused on making as much money as possible (his chosen career is literally to make money from investment) and he's not skimped on relationships or other necessities. On the contrary, I think if you're smart and you're focused on making money in both the short and long term, you probably will make money. On the other hand, if you assume it will happen some day later, you probably won't make money.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    On the business angle, does building a modestly profitable lifestyle business qualify? That's "about the money" in some sense, because you need to make enough money to keep the business open, with enough profits to support you. But it's about the money in a different sense than going for a multimillion-dollar exit is.
  - daeken 15y ago
    While reading this, I was reminded of the following excerpt of Makers by Cory Doctorow (which, btw, is absolutely one of the best books to read if you're into tech startups): > “What? I thought you’d be happy about this.” > “I am,” Perry said. “But you’re misunderstanding something. These aren’t meant to be profitable businesses. I’m done with that. These are art, or community, or something. They’re museums. Lester calls them wunderkammers—cabinets of wonders. There’s no franchising op the way you’re talking about it. It’s ad hoc. It’s a protocol we all agree on, not a business arrangement.” > Tjan grunted. “I don’t think I understand the difference between a agreed-upon protocol and a business arrangement.” He held up his hand to fend off Perry’s next remark. “But it doesn’t matter. You can let people have the franchise for free. You can claim that you’re not letting anyone have anything, that they’re letting themselves in for their franchise. It doesn’t matter to me. > “But Perry, here’s something you’re going to have to understand: it’s going to be nearly impossible not to make a business out of this. Businesses are great structures for managing big projects. It’s like trying to develop the ability to walk without developing a skeleton. Once in a blue moon, you get an octopus, but for the most part, you get skeletons. Skeletons are good shit.” > “Tjan, I want you to come on board to help me create an octopus,” Perry said. > “I can try,” Tjan said, “but it won’t be easy. When you do cool stuff, you end up making money.” > “Fine,” Perry said. “Make money. But keep it to a minimum, OK?”
    - swombat 15y ago
      Nice, but as most people who make cool stuff will attest, making money is a mostly orthogonal activity...
_delirium 15y ago
In Silicon Valley with a tech background it's rarely a very stark choice, though. If you have good tech skills, a the default/fallback option is a pretty nice one, materially speaking: a low 6-figure programming job at a big company. There is very little chance of ending up unemployed-and-homeless, given how much companies are scrambling to hire technical people. In that context, it makes more sense to me to encourage people to think about something other than money as their main/only goal. It is indeed something you can only afford to do if you're privileged enough to have the option, but being a tech person in Silicon Valley means there's a high probability that you do have the option, because if you "fail", you can always fail back to the 6-figure corporate job, which is a pretty soft landing. So given that you can live a materially comfortable life just taking the default route, what else do you want to do?
- swombat 15y ago
  There is very little chance of ending up unemployed-and-homeless, given how much companies are scrambling to hire technical people. For now. See how it goes in 20 years.
  - grogs 15y ago
    I think the 6 figure salaries will definitely still exist. The interesting thing is that developers cannot let their skills stagnate. If we stop learning at 30, the 20 year olds will steal our jobs. Going the management route can be dangerous, but going the consultant route, I think it's a pretty safe career.
- runako 15y ago
  Until you're 40 and are forced out of the field: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3878522 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3878522 Falling back on the corporate job in software becomes less likely as you get older.
twelvechairs 15y ago
> It always grates me when people with lot's of money tell people who don't have lot's of money, that it's not about the money. That may be true, but it is equally grating (if not moreso) when people with lots of money tell people who don't have lots of money that it _is_ about the money....
kamaal 15y ago
May be its also because the rich remain rich only when someone is poor. Being rich is not just comfortable but also a social status, not everyone likes everybody to be their equals.

andrewfelix 15y ago

Right on. It's not about being able to drive a Porsche, it's about not having to worry about the rent.

simonh 15y ago

I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. Conversely, people who primarily focus on making as much money as possible are susceptible to making mistakes such as scrimping on necessary expenses, or sacrificing relationships with valuable business partners.

swombat 15y ago
I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. I agree - if all you care about is money, you won't become successful. You'll probably become rich, though. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. But a good business is one that makes money (apart from the instagrams and other lottery tickets of this world). So focusing on making money is necessary to them too. If you do a great job for your customers but you don't charge them, and so you run out of money and go bankrupt - well, you haven't built a great business at all. Conversely, people who primarily focus on making as much money as possible are susceptible to making mistakes such as scrimping on necessary expenses, or sacrificing relationships with valuable business partners. I think you're confusing short-sighted focus with "focus". Warren Buffet has primarily focused on making as much money as possible (his chosen career is literally to make money from investment) and he's not skimped on relationships or other necessities. On the contrary, I think if you're smart and you're focused on making money in both the short and long term, you probably will make money. On the other hand, if you assume it will happen some day later, you probably won't make money.
- _delirium 15y ago
  On the business angle, does building a modestly profitable lifestyle business qualify? That's "about the money" in some sense, because you need to make enough money to keep the business open, with enough profits to support you. But it's about the money in a different sense than going for a multimillion-dollar exit is.
- daeken 15y ago
  While reading this, I was reminded of the following excerpt of Makers by Cory Doctorow (which, btw, is absolutely one of the best books to read if you're into tech startups): > “What? I thought you’d be happy about this.” > “I am,” Perry said. “But you’re misunderstanding something. These aren’t meant to be profitable businesses. I’m done with that. These are art, or community, or something. They’re museums. Lester calls them wunderkammers—cabinets of wonders. There’s no franchising op the way you’re talking about it. It’s ad hoc. It’s a protocol we all agree on, not a business arrangement.” > Tjan grunted. “I don’t think I understand the difference between a agreed-upon protocol and a business arrangement.” He held up his hand to fend off Perry’s next remark. “But it doesn’t matter. You can let people have the franchise for free. You can claim that you’re not letting anyone have anything, that they’re letting themselves in for their franchise. It doesn’t matter to me. > “But Perry, here’s something you’re going to have to understand: it’s going to be nearly impossible not to make a business out of this. Businesses are great structures for managing big projects. It’s like trying to develop the ability to walk without developing a skeleton. Once in a blue moon, you get an octopus, but for the most part, you get skeletons. Skeletons are good shit.” > “Tjan, I want you to come on board to help me create an octopus,” Perry said. > “I can try,” Tjan said, “but it won’t be easy. When you do cool stuff, you end up making money.” > “Fine,” Perry said. “Make money. But keep it to a minimum, OK?”
  - swombat 15y ago
    Nice, but as most people who make cool stuff will attest, making money is a mostly orthogonal activity...

_delirium 15y ago

In Silicon Valley with a tech background it's rarely a very stark choice, though. If you have good tech skills, a the default/fallback option is a pretty nice one, materially speaking: a low 6-figure programming job at a big company. There is very little chance of ending up unemployed-and-homeless, given how much companies are scrambling to hire technical people. In that context, it makes more sense to me to encourage people to think about something other than money as their main/only goal. It is indeed something you can only afford to do if you're privileged enough to have the option, but being a tech person in Silicon Valley means there's a high probability that you do have the option, because if you "fail", you can always fail back to the 6-figure corporate job, which is a pretty soft landing. So given that you can live a materially comfortable life just taking the default route, what else do you want to do?

swombat 15y ago
There is very little chance of ending up unemployed-and-homeless, given how much companies are scrambling to hire technical people. For now. See how it goes in 20 years.
- grogs 15y ago
  I think the 6 figure salaries will definitely still exist. The interesting thing is that developers cannot let their skills stagnate. If we stop learning at 30, the 20 year olds will steal our jobs. Going the management route can be dangerous, but going the consultant route, I think it's a pretty safe career.
runako 15y ago
Until you're 40 and are forced out of the field: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3878522 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3878522 Falling back on the corporate job in software becomes less likely as you get older.

twelvechairs 15y ago

> It always grates me when people with lot's of money tell people who don't have lot's of money, that it's not about the money. That may be true, but it is equally grating (if not moreso) when people with lots of money tell people who don't have lots of money that it _is_ about the money....

kamaal 15y ago

May be its also because the rich remain rich only when someone is poor. Being rich is not just comfortable but also a social status, not everyone likes everybody to be their equals.