5 ms·

I think at some point we’re going to realize algorithmic addiction is worse than addictions to most drugs.

by faeriechangling 3y ago

wnevets 3y ago
> realize algorithmic addiction Is that really relevant to tiktok live?
- codetrotter 3y ago
  Yes. TikTok shows live streams that get more engagement to more people. Algorithmically.
  - wnevets 3y ago
    I have never been shown a tiktok live that is relevant to anything I've done, sometimes they're not even in English. Are you sure their algorithm isn't a random number generator?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - codetrotter 3y ago
      Aside from whatever algorithm they use for serving lives themselves I also want to point out the following: No one downloads TikTok just to watch lives. You download TikTok because you heard it was entertaining. Or if you were early, because you kept seeing ads for it back when TikTok was buying a lot of ads to promote TikTok. The algorithms keep you scrolling the normal For You Page (“FYP”). Every now and then the algorithms put a live stream in the FYP. So even if the Live algorithm might not be sophisticated (which I don’t know if is true – I don’t work for ByteDance), it is certainly the case that it is the algorithms that draw people into the TikTok live streams in the first place for a lot of people. And then one day people get unlucky and they are sucked into one of the streams where it seems that everyone is gifting and they get the feeling that the lady in the article talked about when they make an innocent $1 gift, and if they are even more unlucky it spirals out of control for them.
      - wnevets 3y ago
        Stopping to watch a random live that pops up on your FYP actually takes you out of the addictive flow of the tiktok algorithm. Like Twitch, YouTube and strip clubs the addictive nature of tiktok lives has nothing to do with the algorithm feeding content it thinks you'll like. The addictive part is the attention you get from the performer in an exchange for money.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dangus 3y ago
I agree that social media can be a very bad addiction but calling it worse than most drugs is a leap. Physical drugs damage organs, cause cancer, leave you with lifelong physical cravings, and go as far as causing death directly.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  I doubt sitting motionless with your head at a 45* angle for hours is good for your physical well being either to be fair
  - dangus 3y ago
    Much better to drink your fifth of vodka throughout the day, keeps your head upright.
wirthjason 3y ago
“Addiction is a disease” is something I learned as a child of a (now sober) alcoholic parent. It’s a strange classification at first because addiction seems like a matter of will and strength. If we’re going to lump algorithmic addiction in with other addictions there’s a lot of interesting things that would flow from that. For example now that online gambling and sports betting is more common there’s disclaimers and commercials telling people to get help if they have a problem. Should the same thing be true for social media and Candy Crush games? “Do you have a problem with social media, go to Facebook.com/gethelp for more information”
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zemvpferreira 3y ago
I mean, I sincerely hope you're not speaking from experience. But have you ever dealt with an alcoholic at home? Or a heroin addict? Seen delirium tremens? Cleaned up the puke after a binge? Had your possessions stolen by a close relation for said drugs? Had to withhold giving them anything of value so they couldn't sell it to further their self-destruction? I remember one of my grand-uncles used to take off his oxygen mask to take puffs from his cigarettes before whatever illness finally killed him back in the 90s. Having seen a number of addictions from a relatively safe distance I will take algorithms 1000 times.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  I saw an alcoholic yesterday. The cognitive decline I saw terrified me because this was a smarter than average person in their prime who was no longer able play a game that children could play. Alcohol and Tobacco aren't most drugs, but I maybe framed things misleadingly, as I see people use caffeine/addictive pharmaceuticals/psychedelics/cannabis a fair bit and those are all in the category of "drugs" and yet I knew few people with serious problems with those and yet I hardly can enter a room where multiple people aren't addicted to some algorithm.
  - zemvpferreira 3y ago
    They must be the most commonly abused substances, no? In any case pardon me for waxing poetic but substance abuse strikes a nerve.
- mrweasel 3y ago
  Comparing these types of addictions probably isn't a good idea. Alcoholism, gambling and drug addictions are destructive in a way I doubt those of us who hasn't experienced it can imagine. Social media addictions are destructive in vastly different ways (unless you have family or friends who disappear down a dark conspiracy rabbit hole) and on a much larger scale. So while it isn't as damaging to the individual family as alcoholism, the overall cost of the degradation of society could easily surpass that of any other addiction, simply due to the number of people who are affected at some level.
mrweasel 3y ago
I love YouTube, for it's medium to long content. The depth videos and the relaxation I get from spending 30 minutes watching someone repair an old Amiga or Mac is amazing, but YouTube Shorts is freaking scary. Apparently I do not have the self control to handle Shorts and every 30 days I tell YouTube to hide them. If that feature goes away I think I just need to cancel my YouTube Premium subscription and block the site. In recent days I have also noticed that the YouTube algorithm will move you towards increasingly scary content. The algorithm will quickly move you from weight training to misogynist videos in less than 30 minutes.
- realce 3y ago
  I consider myself a savvy and cynical user of the internet, thinking I have some sort of mental protection from dopamine-controlling UX or content. I have lost literal hours to youtube shorts. It generates the same re-dosing compulsions as cocaine or any other drug I've ever experienced. It. Is. Fucking. Dangerous.
- jen20 3y ago
  I watch a fair amount of the YouTube retro computing, electronics and car restoration channels, but because of the hate-crime that is the YouTube recommendation system, have turned off automatic play and shorts. Automatic play because it quickly gets you to the crazies, and shorts because I am not 14. If YouTube don’t learn to understand that “no” means “no” and not “maybe later” (you can just feel the mid-product-owner energy from that phrase), I too will cease using it. Whether I’ll entirely give up on the content is to be seen.
- nullandvoid 3y ago
  I reccomend the chrome / FF extension "news feed eradicator" to block youtube feed, and algorithmic content across other sites. I consume exclusively from my subscription feed (which I review every few months). In additionu ublock origin element blocker can be used to to remove shorts section in subscriptions - means I haven't seen shorts in a long time.
hooverd 3y ago
This just in, "digital fentanyl" worse than actual fentanyl.

I think at some point we’re going to realize algorithmic addiction is worse than addictions to most drugs.

wnevets 3y ago

> realize algorithmic addiction Is that really relevant to tiktok live?

codetrotter 3y ago
Yes. TikTok shows live streams that get more engagement to more people. Algorithmically.
- wnevets 3y ago
  I have never been shown a tiktok live that is relevant to anything I've done, sometimes they're not even in English. Are you sure their algorithm isn't a random number generator?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - codetrotter 3y ago
    Aside from whatever algorithm they use for serving lives themselves I also want to point out the following: No one downloads TikTok just to watch lives. You download TikTok because you heard it was entertaining. Or if you were early, because you kept seeing ads for it back when TikTok was buying a lot of ads to promote TikTok. The algorithms keep you scrolling the normal For You Page (“FYP”). Every now and then the algorithms put a live stream in the FYP. So even if the Live algorithm might not be sophisticated (which I don’t know if is true – I don’t work for ByteDance), it is certainly the case that it is the algorithms that draw people into the TikTok live streams in the first place for a lot of people. And then one day people get unlucky and they are sucked into one of the streams where it seems that everyone is gifting and they get the feeling that the lady in the article talked about when they make an innocent $1 gift, and if they are even more unlucky it spirals out of control for them.
    - wnevets 3y ago
      Stopping to watch a random live that pops up on your FYP actually takes you out of the addictive flow of the tiktok algorithm. Like Twitch, YouTube and strip clubs the addictive nature of tiktok lives has nothing to do with the algorithm feeding content it thinks you'll like. The addictive part is the attention you get from the performer in an exchange for money.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dangus 3y ago

I agree that social media can be a very bad addiction but calling it worse than most drugs is a leap. Physical drugs damage organs, cause cancer, leave you with lifelong physical cravings, and go as far as causing death directly.

kjkjadksj 3y ago
I doubt sitting motionless with your head at a 45* angle for hours is good for your physical well being either to be fair
- dangus 3y ago
  Much better to drink your fifth of vodka throughout the day, keeps your head upright.

wirthjason 3y ago

“Addiction is a disease” is something I learned as a child of a (now sober) alcoholic parent. It’s a strange classification at first because addiction seems like a matter of will and strength. If we’re going to lump algorithmic addiction in with other addictions there’s a lot of interesting things that would flow from that. For example now that online gambling and sports betting is more common there’s disclaimers and commercials telling people to get help if they have a problem. Should the same thing be true for social media and Candy Crush games? “Do you have a problem with social media, go to Facebook.com/gethelp for more information”

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zemvpferreira 3y ago

I mean, I sincerely hope you're not speaking from experience. But have you ever dealt with an alcoholic at home? Or a heroin addict? Seen delirium tremens? Cleaned up the puke after a binge? Had your possessions stolen by a close relation for said drugs? Had to withhold giving them anything of value so they couldn't sell it to further their self-destruction? I remember one of my grand-uncles used to take off his oxygen mask to take puffs from his cigarettes before whatever illness finally killed him back in the 90s. Having seen a number of addictions from a relatively safe distance I will take algorithms 1000 times.

faeriechangling 3y ago
I saw an alcoholic yesterday. The cognitive decline I saw terrified me because this was a smarter than average person in their prime who was no longer able play a game that children could play. Alcohol and Tobacco aren't most drugs, but I maybe framed things misleadingly, as I see people use caffeine/addictive pharmaceuticals/psychedelics/cannabis a fair bit and those are all in the category of "drugs" and yet I knew few people with serious problems with those and yet I hardly can enter a room where multiple people aren't addicted to some algorithm.
- zemvpferreira 3y ago
  They must be the most commonly abused substances, no? In any case pardon me for waxing poetic but substance abuse strikes a nerve.
mrweasel 3y ago
Comparing these types of addictions probably isn't a good idea. Alcoholism, gambling and drug addictions are destructive in a way I doubt those of us who hasn't experienced it can imagine. Social media addictions are destructive in vastly different ways (unless you have family or friends who disappear down a dark conspiracy rabbit hole) and on a much larger scale. So while it isn't as damaging to the individual family as alcoholism, the overall cost of the degradation of society could easily surpass that of any other addiction, simply due to the number of people who are affected at some level.

mrweasel 3y ago

I love YouTube, for it's medium to long content. The depth videos and the relaxation I get from spending 30 minutes watching someone repair an old Amiga or Mac is amazing, but YouTube Shorts is freaking scary. Apparently I do not have the self control to handle Shorts and every 30 days I tell YouTube to hide them. If that feature goes away I think I just need to cancel my YouTube Premium subscription and block the site. In recent days I have also noticed that the YouTube algorithm will move you towards increasingly scary content. The algorithm will quickly move you from weight training to misogynist videos in less than 30 minutes.

realce 3y ago
I consider myself a savvy and cynical user of the internet, thinking I have some sort of mental protection from dopamine-controlling UX or content. I have lost literal hours to youtube shorts. It generates the same re-dosing compulsions as cocaine or any other drug I've ever experienced. It. Is. Fucking. Dangerous.
jen20 3y ago
I watch a fair amount of the YouTube retro computing, electronics and car restoration channels, but because of the hate-crime that is the YouTube recommendation system, have turned off automatic play and shorts. Automatic play because it quickly gets you to the crazies, and shorts because I am not 14. If YouTube don’t learn to understand that “no” means “no” and not “maybe later” (you can just feel the mid-product-owner energy from that phrase), I too will cease using it. Whether I’ll entirely give up on the content is to be seen.
nullandvoid 3y ago
I reccomend the chrome / FF extension "news feed eradicator" to block youtube feed, and algorithmic content across other sites. I consume exclusively from my subscription feed (which I review every few months). In additionu ublock origin element blocker can be used to to remove shorts section in subscriptions - means I haven't seen shorts in a long time.

hooverd 3y ago

This just in, "digital fentanyl" worse than actual fentanyl.