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Switzerland isn't special, they're in the NATO sphere of influence and (behind the scene) can't say no to big brother. Exhibit A your honor: https://en.wikiped

Switzerland isn't special, they're in the NATO sphere of influence and (behind the scene) can't say no to big brother. Exhibit A your honor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG I have a Proton account by the way, but I'm not under the illusion that my emails are safe from 3 letter agencies.

pgeorgi 3y ago
I wouldn't be too surprised if any other "sphere" also has its Swiss front to sell neutral tech that totally doesn't support the mothership. Switzerland is relatively consistent in offering equal treatment, so maybe it'll eventually turn out that some outlet or another is controlled and manipulated in sinister ways by China, India, or maybe the Vatican or Bhutan.
- saturn_vk 3y ago
  Finding a Vatican conspiracy would be quite interesting
ur-whale 3y ago
> I have a Proton account by the way, but I'm not under the illusion that my emails are safe from 3 letter agencies. Absolutely correct. Nor are they safe from the Swiss government either.
xinayder 3y ago
Proton lost my trust when every time you open their webmail they shove PLEASE UPGRADE TO A BETTER PLAN in your face or YOU CAN NOW HAVE PROTON VPN AND PROTON DRIVE FOR $9 PER MONTH if you have the free plan. It's a very sketchy behavior for a company that says they care about your privacy.
BSDobelix 3y ago
>Switzerland isn't special, they're in the NATO sphere of influence and (behind the scene) can't say no to big brother. As you can read the owner was the CIA and the BND [1] and NOT FIS. BUT: >>According to a Swiss parliamentary investigation, "Swiss intelligence service were aware of and benefited from the Zug-based firm Crypto AG’s involvement in the US-led spying". [1]The company was secretly purchased for US $5.75 million and jointly owned by the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) from 1970 until about 1993.
billyzs 3y ago
Yeah, let’s not forget https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-12-06/swiss-tech-company-boss-accused-of-selling-mobile-network-access-for-spying https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-12-06/swi... I’m not under any illusion that there’s any “Swiss exceptionalism” when it comes to privacy.
notthefbi21 3y ago
You're not even safe from the French police, let alone the NSA https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...
- protonmail 3y ago
  This case in fact proves that we provide privacy by default, as it shows that no legal request can bypass the encryprion we provide. The email content (including attachments, calendars, files on Proton Drive and items on Proton Pass) stored encrypted on our servers remains inaccessible to us due to zero-access architecture we use ( https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption ), and therefore, we are not able to share it with any third-parties in an unencrypted form.
protonmail 3y ago
We understand your concerns, however there is no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( https://proton.me/community/open-source https://proton.me/community/open-source ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More about this here: https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy
- jmnicolas 3y ago
  Client side encryption can be weakened (by a well placed "bug" for example) as to render it irrelevant.
  - protonmail 3y ago
    Our infrastructure is set up in a way that makes it very difficult to target specific users with custom builds.

pgeorgi 3y ago

I wouldn't be too surprised if any other "sphere" also has its Swiss front to sell neutral tech that totally doesn't support the mothership. Switzerland is relatively consistent in offering equal treatment, so maybe it'll eventually turn out that some outlet or another is controlled and manipulated in sinister ways by China, India, or maybe the Vatican or Bhutan.

saturn_vk 3y ago
Finding a Vatican conspiracy would be quite interesting

ur-whale 3y ago

> I have a Proton account by the way, but I'm not under the illusion that my emails are safe from 3 letter agencies. Absolutely correct. Nor are they safe from the Swiss government either.

xinayder 3y ago

Proton lost my trust when every time you open their webmail they shove PLEASE UPGRADE TO A BETTER PLAN in your face or YOU CAN NOW HAVE PROTON VPN AND PROTON DRIVE FOR $9 PER MONTH if you have the free plan. It's a very sketchy behavior for a company that says they care about your privacy.

BSDobelix 3y ago

>Switzerland isn't special, they're in the NATO sphere of influence and (behind the scene) can't say no to big brother. As you can read the owner was the CIA and the BND [1] and NOT FIS. BUT: >>According to a Swiss parliamentary investigation, "Swiss intelligence service were aware of and benefited from the Zug-based firm Crypto AG’s involvement in the US-led spying". [1]The company was secretly purchased for US $5.75 million and jointly owned by the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) from 1970 until about 1993.

billyzs 3y ago

Yeah, let’s not forget https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-12-06/swiss-tech-company-boss-accused-of-selling-mobile-network-access-for-spying https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-12-06/swi... I’m not under any illusion that there’s any “Swiss exceptionalism” when it comes to privacy.

notthefbi21 3y ago

You're not even safe from the French police, let alone the NSA https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...

protonmail 3y ago
This case in fact proves that we provide privacy by default, as it shows that no legal request can bypass the encryprion we provide. The email content (including attachments, calendars, files on Proton Drive and items on Proton Pass) stored encrypted on our servers remains inaccessible to us due to zero-access architecture we use ( https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption https://proton.me/blog/zero-access-encryption ), and therefore, we are not able to share it with any third-parties in an unencrypted form.

protonmail 3y ago

We understand your concerns, however there is no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side, our cryptographic code is open source ( https://proton.me/community/open-source https://proton.me/community/open-source ), and our tech can and has been independently verified. More about this here: https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy https://proton.me/blog/is-protonmail-trustworthy

jmnicolas 3y ago
Client side encryption can be weakened (by a well placed "bug" for example) as to render it irrelevant.
- protonmail 3y ago
  Our infrastructure is set up in a way that makes it very difficult to target specific users with custom builds.