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Yes apartheid is a label that can be applied but only when talking about the occupied territories, what Israel is doing in the West Bank is a system of populati
by kmos17 3y ago
Yes apartheid is a label that can be applied but only when talking about the occupied territories, what Israel is doing in the West Bank is a system of population control that seems very close to or worst than apartheid, and with the colonist movement backed by the Israeli army it is effectively a form of ethnic cleansing, albeit a very ineffective one so far considering the growth of the Palestinian population.
But Israel itself is not an apartheid state, it is the most inclusive and liberal democracy in the entire region. Calling Israel an apartheid state because of what they do in the West Bank is a stretch, it would be like calling the USA a military fascist dictatorship because of what they did in Iraq.
And regardless of wanting to think of the whole of Palestine as a single country, the most important fact is the Palestinians and Israeli have absolutely no desire to live together in a single state, the only option the vast majority of Palestinians want is a single Palestinian state with no Israelis or jews (from the river to the sea). The Israelis are split but most favor a two state solution.
So your simplistic solution is not one that is grounded in any reality, it is a pure fantasy and projection of western virtue, and if you had any understanding of the actual situation you would realize that what you are advocating for (the dissolution of Israel and Palestine into a single state) will only happen with the genocide (an actual one) of one of the two populations fighting over that piece of land. Maybe it can happen one day with the two populations living in peace, but that is certainly not the case now, and all the hysteric propaganda is making it even less likely.
- Qem 3y ago> But Israel itself is not an apartheid state, it is the most inclusive and liberal democracy in the entire region. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have a different assessment: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-... Amnesty Q&A on Israel's Apartheid: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-cruel-system-of-domination-and-crime-against-humanity/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israel...
- runarberg 3y agoIt feels like you are very conveniently brushing aside the West Bank. The West Bank is very much an apartheid. Military checkpoints, double judicial system, limited suffrage, they even have a separated road system. It is not the Palestinian Authority which is imposing this system, it is Israel. > It would be like calling the USA a military fascist dictatorship because of what they did in Iraq. Bad comparison. It would be like calling the USA a colonial power because of they hold colonies in Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the North Mariana Islands. Mind you that the only thing the USA has in common with Israel regarding their colonies, is limited suffrage (which it is correctly criticized for). No military checkpoints, no double judicial systems, no limited movement, no separated road networks. Many, including me wouldn’t call the USA a democracy if it still held their pre-civil rights segregation of black and indigenous people. In my mind USA didn’t become a democracy until 1964. What Israel is doing is far worse then USA under Jim Crow. Israel is not a democracy by modern standards.
- kmos17 3y agoThe entire position is that Israel is an apartheid state because it occupies territories, and you are viewing the whole as a single country. In that respect yes I understand it can be considered an apartheid state. But again none of the multiple commenters here making this moral judgement have offered an actual solution based on this assessment that is any way realistic and treats both populations with the basic human right they deserve of self determination. Israel cannot be erased from the map as most Palestinians want without committing an actual genocide. Neither Israelis or Palestinians want to live in a single unified state. So what is your solution? What does labeling this an apartheid or colonial state and saying your solution is to end it actually solve? The only thing it does is perpetuate the narrative that actually keeps Palestinians from having a state and living in peace, which is coincidentally quite convenient to a lot of Arab states in the region who can brush under the proverbial carpet the horrors in their own backyards, just look at Syria and Yemen, the number of deaths is in the order of 30x more than Gaza and 10’s of millions of civilians have been displaced, and where is the outrage about these horrific wars?
- runarberg 3y ago