5 ms·

For me the biggest motivation to not dip my toes too much into BASIC on 8-bit computers was the abysmal performance. If I remember right, assembler was about 10

For me the biggest motivation to not dip my toes too much into BASIC on 8-bit computers was the abysmal performance. If I remember right, assembler was about 100x faster, compiled high-level languages like PASCAL about 10x faster, and FORTH somewhere inbetween compiled languages and assembler.

zozbot234 3y ago
FORTH could've been a very elegant alternative to BASIC on 8-bit class hardware, but one major problem with it was that having to enter absolutely everything as RPN/postfix notation could be very unintuitive at times. E.g. prefix or mixfix notation for some things such as math is only very slightly harder to parse, but then provides a big gain in user friendliness. And floating point math takes up a big chunk of the code in typical BASIC ROMs, so it was clearly regarded as important to duplicate that desk calculator-like UX.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Perhaps forth for newbies wouldn't be too friendly... but you can totally write an infix parser in forth, and toggle in and out of that parser.
- jdougan 3y ago
  Look up the Jupiter Ace from 1982. A lot like a Timex-Sinclair, but with Forth as the built in language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ace
classichasclass 3y ago
At least on the C64, I use BASIC as largely a scripting language and master scheduler, calling 6502 machine language subroutines with SYS, and reserving BASIC for the very highest level main loop or non-speed-sensitive tasks that would be inconvenient, bulky or unnecessary to write in assembly. It gives me a scaffold to hang things off.
- Kamq 3y ago
  So, basically how people use python now?
kyriakos 3y ago
Learning quickbasic which was compiled in DOS as a kid pushed me to learn x86 assembly just to make pixels appear on screen faster. Its slowness was a feature for me in the end.

5 ms·

For me the biggest motivation to not dip my toes too much into BASIC on 8-bit computers was the abysmal performance. If I remember right, assembler was about 10

by flohofwoe 3y ago

zozbot234 3y ago
FORTH could've been a very elegant alternative to BASIC on 8-bit class hardware, but one major problem with it was that having to enter absolutely everything as RPN/postfix notation could be very unintuitive at times. E.g. prefix or mixfix notation for some things such as math is only very slightly harder to parse, but then provides a big gain in user friendliness. And floating point math takes up a big chunk of the code in typical BASIC ROMs, so it was clearly regarded as important to duplicate that desk calculator-like UX.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Perhaps forth for newbies wouldn't be too friendly... but you can totally write an infix parser in forth, and toggle in and out of that parser.
- jdougan 3y ago
  Look up the Jupiter Ace from 1982. A lot like a Timex-Sinclair, but with Forth as the built in language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ace
classichasclass 3y ago
At least on the C64, I use BASIC as largely a scripting language and master scheduler, calling 6502 machine language subroutines with SYS, and reserving BASIC for the very highest level main loop or non-speed-sensitive tasks that would be inconvenient, bulky or unnecessary to write in assembly. It gives me a scaffold to hang things off.
- Kamq 3y ago
  So, basically how people use python now?
kyriakos 3y ago
Learning quickbasic which was compiled in DOS as a kid pushed me to learn x86 assembly just to make pixels appear on screen faster. Its slowness was a feature for me in the end.